John K's Superpole Bike Wheel SSG

[alfinip2000]

Hi Tony,

I'm not sure that having a bulb across the cap is the best way to test this. I'm also not sure that combining the outputs is the best way to go either. The reason being that each of your four circuits will be running at different frequencies, so there is a probability that one is cancelling the output of another out.

Just my thoughts, I'd welcome input from any of the other experienced guys on this.

In my opinion it would be best to build a multii coil machine to increase your output, but then you need to make sure that your coils and transistors are matched for all the components to work in harmony.

John K.

hi John K,
am planning to add my other coils on my 10 coiler .. my question is, is it OK if per coils strand is matched the component? for ex: coil 1 have matched component to each strand, coil 2 have matched component for each strand also.. but coil 1 and coil 2 is no matched, just say the difference of the component is 3%, it will be very expensive for me, to find exactly same matched component for all 41 strands ..
Cheers,
Alfin

[John_Koorn]

Tony,

Your mental picture is correct, except that the sulfation (lead sulfate) is dissolved back into the electrolyte rather than falling off. Kind of like sugar dissolving in hot water so to speak.

As for desulfating, you need to ensure that your SG is sized correctly for your charge battery. If your battery is too large it will take too long to charge and if your battery is too small you'll be pushing too much current to it which will cause the battery to heat up. As a general rule of thumb I like to size my charge battery according to the C20 rate of the primary draw current. For example, if the SG draws 1A of current I'd go for a charge battery of around 20Ah.

The battery will only desulfate as quickly as it wants to, I don't think you can force this as it is a chemical process that works on nature's time scale. You can however run the machine more efficiently by tuning it so the coil is in resonance with the primary battery. This is fairly easy to do with a rotored SG, but for a solid state SG it is a little more difficult. Basically I tune a solid state SG for the best charging for the least draw current.

Hope this helps...

John K.

[RS_]

Tony, JK,

So you have 4 separate coils, but close to each other in wire size, turns etc, made up as 4 solid state SSG's each with a trigger and a drive strand

You need to make one of the 4 coils the master, with the trigger winding. Unhook the trigger windings from the other 3 coils circuit's, , add 3 transistors and resistors for the 3 extra strands. Hook the master trigger strand to a 1K Pot, then to a 10 to 100 ohm resistor, then to 22 ohm to 220 ohm branching base resistor's on each transistor's base so that the one master trigger strand is feeding all 7 transistors base's through the branching resistors. Then tie all of the output diodes, output's together into 1 SSG charging battery........

the trigger resistor values , depend on the Gage Size of the trigger strand, and the size of transistors used, to provide enough current for each base, to turn on fully......

it helps if all the transistors and resistors values are matched up

you may want to zip tie all 4 coils together in a stack to improve the spike out put...........

RS

[LesK]

Tom C,
thank you for your reply much appreciated as always.

Tony,
I have done only a little work with the solid state SG. I can tell you it is finicky fickle and a tough nut to crack to get something like you are doing right. The advantage of the rotored SSG is two fold. the regauging is key to getting into the resonance of the battery and that is hard to do otherwise. The other aspect is something not talked about much and I was glad to see it at least mentioned in the new SG beginners book. And that is what is happening with the trigger winding. This is hard to explain unless you have a good understanding of the timing of the cap on a magneto. Here is where the tread hits... While the inductor is going into collapse the cap is hitting the primary with current causing both longitudinal and transverse waves to come out of the system simultaneously. This is the difference between yellow and blue green sparking. This is not something you will get with the ss ssg. I would talk more about it but this may not be the place. But if you cannot mix these two forms of energy properly you will not see any increase in output over input. This is also why battery swapping works when you separate the trigger strand. The SS SSG however does not mix the two. I have found that with the SS SSG that if you are not careful and you get the longitudinal waves from the coils out of phase hitting the wrong way you will end up on the floor dry heaving and in pain like you have never experienced in your life.... This is why I stopped with solid state and only carefully came back under JB's direction on the crystal battery forum. Nobody else to my knowledge has had such an experience and I wanted to talk to JB personally about it but it may be a while before I can make the trip.

John K,
I sent you a pm as I was not sure if this was the right place to discuss the ten or six coil. But I was wondering about the relationship of your setup to the one JB uses to charge his 1600ah batteries. And I was wondering if his were 2 volt cells or 6volt. I am trying to get an idea of a good battery bank size if I run the six coil at 24 volts.

Thanks
Les

[John_Koorn]

John K,
I sent you a pm as I was not sure if this was the right place to discuss the ten or six coil. But I was wondering about the relationship of your setup to the one JB uses to charge his 1600ah batteries. And I was wondering if his were 2 volt cells or 6volt. I am trying to get an idea of a good battery bank size if I run the six coil at 24 volts.

Thanks
Les

Hey Les,

JB's 10 coiler is using 2 volt cells, front and back. I asked him why he ran it at 24 volts, he said that it was something that Peter wanted to try at the time. (Remember that Peter and John experimented with a lot of things at that time) I also think, but I'm not sure, that the trash can sized batteries came from a surplus store. I remember him saying that when he and Peter got them they were all sulfated up and it took a long time to get them cleaned up. I also remember him saying that they bought 13 of them, but one of them fell off the truck while they were loading them - acid everywhere like you would not believe. Lucky they only needed 12 to make up 24 volts.

Anyway, he said that all of his SGs were all designed to work at 12 volts and you don't want or need to run them at 24 volts. (The 10 coiler is the only model in his shop running on 24 volts) The reason why is because the impedance between the two 12 volt batteries is bad. To get the most out of the machine the impedance between each of the cells must be the same and this is impossible unless you are using very short, fat pieces of solid lead.

The 10 coiler got around this because John and Peter used big fat copper pipes to join all of the 2 volt cells together, so the impedance between the cells was the same. It's the same reason why John recommends you use short fat cables to and from the SG. Impedance is everything in the machine. Same reason why John makes such good Class A amplifiers

John K.

[knagtegl]

Hi Les,

Can you explain in more detail what you mean by:

The SS SSG however does not mix the two. I have found that with the SS SSG that if you are not careful and you get the longitudinal waves from the coils out of phase hitting the wrong way you will end up on the floor dry heaving and in pain like you have never experienced in your life....

Thanks,

Karel

[LesK]

Hey Les,

JB's 10 coiler is using 2 volt cells, front and back. I asked him why he ran it at 24 volts, he said that it was something that Peter wanted to try at the time. (Remember that Peter and John experimented with a lot of things at that time) I also think, but I'm not sure, that the trash can sized batteries came from a surplus store. I remember him saying that when he and Peter got them they were all sulfated up and it took a long time to get them cleaned up. I also remember him saying that they bought 13 of them, but one of them fell off the truck while they were loading them - acid everywhere like you would not believe. Lucky they only needed 12 to make up 24 volts.

Anyway, he said that all of his SGs were all designed to work at 12 volts and you don't want or need to run them at 24 volts. (The 10 coiler is the only model in his shop running on 24 volts) The reason why is because the impedance between the two 12 volt batteries is bad. To get the most out of the machine the impedance between each of the cells must be the same and this is impossible unless you are using very short, fat pieces of solid lead.

The 10 coiler got around this because John and Peter used big fat copper pipes to join all of the 2 volt cells together, so the impedance between the cells was the same. It's the same reason why John recommends you use short fat cables to and from the SG. Impedance is everything in the machine. Same reason why John makes such good Class A amplifiers

John K.

On the energetics forum Peter said that john designed the six coil for six amps. To get the 120ma per strand I run at just over three. The ten coil at ten amps is over 200ma per strand.
1600ah at 24 volts looks something like this...
1600/20 = 80amps 80*24=1920 so we would be looking at 1920watts for 18 hours(not 20 let's not kill the batteries). but the charging is 240 watts for eight hours.
This also makes me wonder if the Ten coil is in repulsion or attraction mode.

For my current testing on the six coil I am running in repulsion mode(I'll take the time to change that soon). I am using two 800cca batteries in parallel on back for twelve volts.
On the front I have three batteries. One is 600cca, the other 700cca, and the third is three 14ah motorcycle batteries in parallel. Running from each individually I see different things and that confirms what you have said about impedance in the system making a difference. At exactly the same voltage there are significant differences in current draw and charge.
At lower current draw at the right impedance batter faster charging seems to take place. Opposite of what you would think. one would suppose that if you are pulling more current then more charging would take place, which is not what I see. Most do not realize that motorcycle batteries are at the ten hour rate not the twenty. so there is a real dramatic difference in impedance using those batteries. I have only cycled this experiment four times and the 800cca on the output are new so it is taking some time. But I would say that this machine would actually handle some rather large quantity of deep cycle in the same impedance range as the 800cca in the same amount of charging time. I am guessing in the range of about 1000ah.

Les

[LesK]

thoughts on impedance...

Here are my thoughts on impedance.
First from my perspective I see the electron flow as something different than most. Certainly we have been taught in school incorrectly and I would also incompletely.
It has been said by a number of people that you can visualize rocks on the bottom of a stream like the electrons in electricity. When I went to school we were taught that electrons flowed from negative to positive. Conventional is from positive to negative and our symbols so represent. However, Here is what I see. I see that electrons are like objects I see in a stream. You can watch and see that on the surface or just below they will move against the current and move upstream. This to me is the electrons (if there are any) going against the larger current of energy which flows the other direction. I think IMHO that originally when the symbols were being defined they had some idea of this and they were depicting the real flow of energy not the electrons.

Now with that in mind we can now look at the other side... Now we are talking about negative energy. Or longitudinal vs transverse. So when looking at something like an impedance we have a whole new problem. impedance that I see from JB is not only backwards but must be inverted. But then also based on principles for which we have no knowledge or foundation. It is out of our view to understand the flow of energy (or energies)that is really taking place. So we are trying to talk about something from a conventional view but for which we don't even understand the most basic underlying principle. If you have never tasted salt in your life and asked someone to describe it's flavor how could they do it? they cannot. only give you a taste. I got something of this from the energetics forum when discussing the Ferris Wheel. John kindly turned my questions over to someone else and they were kind enough to describe a great many things for which I am just now beginning to understand. In one of my experiments as you may remember John K. I was showing zero current flow on the meter and yet completely drained my battery. This opened an area of my mind that hurt.... It twisted my conventional thinking and has taken this long to see that it was an impedance issue and one that I still am unable to fully understand... Yes I see JB with his coils in parallel and one hot and one cold. I understand the ordering of the energies and the idea of entropy and negentropy but I do not understand the principles that make it happen in such a way I can control it and manipulate it in some way as I want.

So much to learn.. so if you have anything to add and help understand the real underlying principles of impedance as JB understands it, please feel free to share.
Les

[fathershand]

Hey John K., I am still working on two group 31 truck batteries. When I insert a wooden stick into the cell of one of them, I get some black looking think material clinging to the stick. There is also the clear electrolyte on the stick also. Have you any idea what the black material is? The re-charge time for this battery is growing. The other battery has a quick discharge and recharge time. Do these two batteries seem to you to be recoverable?

Thanks Tony

[John_Koorn]

Hey Tony,

i believe the black substance is black lead, maybe shredded off the negative plate. I've seen heaps of this stuff when flushing out batteries. It settles to the bottom of the electrolyte so that's why I believe it is lead.

as long as the battery is gaining capacity it is probably recoverable. What you are seeing is normal, the battery will take longer to charge as the plate surface area increases.

John K.

[fathershand]

This stuff is kinda sticky and floats on the top. I ruined a motorcycle battery when I flushed it out, so I'm not excited by the prospects of flushing out this big boy! What do you suggest?

Thanks Tony

[John_Koorn]

Sorry Tony, I have no suggestions. Anyone else?

John K.

[LesK]

This stuff is kinda sticky and floats on the top. I ruined a motorcycle battery when I flushed it out, so I'm not excited by the prospects of flushing out this big boy! What do you suggest?

Thanks Tony

Hi Tony,
I had something like that with the black stuff etc. It happened when I was charging and discharging at the same time. There was no recovery with the SSG or anything I could do.
in fact they dropped to zero volts when I tried the SSG. I then decided to dump the acid and make some Alum batteries. When I dumped them what came out was quite black and like tar. All but one came back into use with the alum but not real strong they were three that I was using on my Ferris Wheel. That was of course only one experience... There obviously could be others...

[fathershand]

John and Les. thanks for your help.
Tony

[Prinsloo]

JohnK

I looked again at the big cap dump vid. and notice that you have moved the pc-boards of your 10 coiler onto the coils it self,

Did you see any gains in doing that, and can you please post some closeup photo of the wiring/connections around the coils, need to get some ideas from you on it, if you will and have the time please?

Thanks

Theunis