John K's Superpole Bike Wheel SSG

[aln]

wow. Nice job.

[John_Koorn]

Thanks aln, it helps when you have 72 magnets on the wheel

The bearings are just the original bike wheel bearings, although they are German made (not China crap). Loosened off a bit and some silicon based lube (Nilon). Wheel is balanced with small pieces of lead clamped to the spokes where needed.

John K.

[intactsaphir]

Hello

you recharge the primary battery?

rechargez vous la batterie primaire?

[D Rhodes]

53 minutes! That's showing off John!

[Georgey Nico]

Hi John do you know the weight of the coil, I'm thinking of putting together a new wheel with 2 coils 1 with 5 strands and the other with 4,
that way i can just add coils as i progress with grater understanding.Having that in mind would 21# trigger and 24# power windings do the trick.

Cheers,
George N.

[Georgey Nico]

Hi John do you know the weight of the coil, I'm thinking of putting together a new wheel with 2 coils 1 with 5 strands and the other with 4,
that way i can just add coils as i progress with grater understanding.Having that in mind would 21# trigger and 24# power windings do the trick.

Cheers,
George N.

[Faraday88]

hi George,
why would you go with this style for the two coils differently..???
Rgds,
Faraday88.

[BobZilla]

Faraday,, he probably wants to have 4 power windings on his slave and each additional one would have 4,,, the 5 winder would include his trigger.

George,
It is a matter of preference but if you are planning on large batteries/banks you may want to go with 18AWg on the power and 20 on the trigger. I much prefer 18AWG. My 2 coiler can charge 100AH no problem with 18AWG.

[Georgey Nico]

Hi Faraday88,
Bobzilla is correct, in that i an wanting to build an energizer that can charge large Ah battery banks down the track, my thinking is to build a 2 coil set up first and understand everything i can, as my knowledge grows so to can my energizes and my battery-bank, it's going to take time as I'm time poor at the moment, i would like to be able to have the larger cap-dump setup so i rotate batteries but it's to pricey for me, i have built ssg, ss ssg, and a window motor before so this will be my first multi coil energizer, i still haven't decided weather to build a supper north rotor or not yet.

Bobzilla do you know what 18 & 20 AWg is in mm metric ?, if i go super poles would 24 AWg trigger be better?. John k. is using 21 & 24 AWg for this wheel, is that because it's only one coil, if you could answer that question John that would be grate.

Cheers,
George N.

[BobZilla]

Hi George,
I found this conversion table for AWG to metric see if it looks about right to you. I have always purchased wire in AWG so I cannot be too sure.

LINK:
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/aw...uge-d_731.html

John can chime in as well but I would say that using a super pole or not is going to have less to do with your wire size and more to do with how you want the machine to run. The main thing with the super pole is to produce sharper and shorter switching no matter what the size of the wire. I have limited experience with super pole configurations but I can tell you that they are finicky to tune. I do not say that to discourage you at all but just be aware that they are a bit harder to work with, especially with the added headache of multiple coils.

I would also like to hear johns input on it though.

[John_Koorn]

Bob is pretty much spot on with his advice on multi-coils. Regardless of whether you use super norths or not you have to make sure your rotor magnets are spaced perfectly and your coil gaps are set properly. You'll also need to make sure your coils are spaced correctly. Super norths will make this more difficult.
Rather than multi-coils you could just make a larger single coil with double the strands. This will remove all the problems previously mentioned.
Also consider why you would run super norths rather than regular magnets. We know that super norths will give you a shorter transistor on time. I wouldn't say that the switching is any quicker because the transistor will switch just as fast as soon as it's biased enough, no matter which way the magnet is mounted.
Consider why then you would want a shorter transistor on time? Maybe you would want to switch the transistor off as soon as the coil is saturated, so as not to waste energy in heating up of the coil. But you don't want to switch it off too soon otherwise the mechanical energy is not maximised.

So what impacts the speed of which the coil is saturated?

John K.

[Nofear]

Good question John K,

Here are my two cents..in no particular order.
-Coil core material.
-Primary battery voltage.
-Fast inrush current: In other words how fast is your transistor? In a case of multi-strand coil that also means how perfectly matched are your transistors?

Am I forgetting something?
NoFear.

[BobZilla]

Thanks for the input John. You said it more precisely with saying the on-time but that is what I meant when I said switching, I was thinking of the whole process as a switch.

So for others who are not quite sure what we mean think of it like this.

NORMAL MAGNET:

off-----ON--------------------off--

Super Pole:

off-----ON-----off--

NoFear,
All valid ideas but I think john was actually bringing the thing full circle, remember what George was asking.

Over all I think the concept of super pole is great and the same with multi coil. If we had nice perfectly machined mounts to keep everything perfectly spaced and a flywheel with perfect magnet spacing I'm sure it would run like a dream. I cannot achieve the tight tolerances with my simple tools to get it right though. My two coiler does ok but not without a lot of messing around to get it firing properly.

[John_Koorn]

Hi Faraday88,
Bobzilla is correct, in that i an wanting to build an energizer that can charge large Ah battery banks down the track, my thinking is to build a 2 coil set up first and understand everything i can, as my knowledge grows so to can my energizes and my battery-bank, it's going to take time as I'm time poor at the moment, i would like to be able to have the larger cap-dump setup so i rotate batteries but it's to pricey for me, i have built ssg, ss ssg, and a window motor before so this will be my first multi coil energizer, i still haven't decided weather to build a supper north rotor or not yet.

Bobzilla do you know what 18 & 20 AWg is in mm metric ?, if i go super poles would 24 AWg trigger be better?. John k. is using 21 & 24 AWg for this wheel, is that because it's only one coil, if you could answer that question John that would be grate.

Cheers,
George N.

George, in answer to your last question it's not because it's just one coil - it's because my wire seller only sells in metric sizes so the wires are 0.5mm and 0.75mm.

if you want to charge larger batteries down the track then I would go for 1mm wire for the power windings and 0.5mm for the trigger. Then you still need to decide what type of magnet configuration. You need to understand what advantage super norths would give you over regular magnets before making this decision.

John K.

[Georgey Nico]

Hi John
Thanks for your response, what would be the max amp hours that the one coil set up like yours would do with reasonable time ?
Would it be fair to say that the quicker the field collapses the grater the spike?
If I remember correctly the rule of thumb with the single magnet spacing was 3 to 5 magnet widths apart, if I were to use the a superpole set up and I used the centre of the two magnets as a centre point what would be the min and max between the two centres.
I have brought several of john B. DVD’s when he talks about the coil as a pump, how the bloch wall expands and contracts, so what you’re saying is if we don’t allow the bloch all to fully expand and contract we aren’t using the coil to its full potential and that is dependent on the spacing of the magnets, when I think about it, the speed of the wheel would have a factor to play as well.

Cheers,
George N.