Thinking beyond the simple SSG

[Forrest]

Hi All, After I made the post about the construction pictures of the quad coil I was thinking as to why I wrote the article. It came down to this...I was experimenting with the aluminum quad coil and needed some new info while charging a garden tractor battery. I thought back to some of the DVD's where there was talk of running the ssg on higher voltage. So I fired up the quad coil sitting adjacent to the little coil...both running on 12 volts. The quad coil is not afixed and is loose. Then I thought about 24 volts so I cliped two batteries together in series and and wow did the rpm change abruptly. It sped up from say 140 rpm to around 300 rpm! I thought about the tape holding the magnets at this speed. I ran it for a minute or so and then said what the heck..... lets try 36 volts. I put another battery in series and holly s**t did things go wild! The rpm then took off and my guess is we were running at 400-500 rpm. I thought really seriuously about the tape holding the magnets and had to make a decision weather to run away or try to shut it off while my arm was in the path of the magnets. The machine was not done increasing speed! I was scared! I switched it off and decided that we need to investigate further. I swithched back to 24 volts input and checked the charging battery....it had boiled some of the acid out onto the bench. So I decided to hook a pair of 12 volt garden batteries in series to slow down the charge process to see if I could control things. As I let the quad coil run on 24 volts I noticed that both batteries were boiling and some of the acid was running out of the top and onto the bench. Mind you that the batteries were both cold to touch. This is what led me to believe that I could handle charging those L16's. This the break thru I have been searching for. The higher voltage is where things change dramaticlly.

I have also been knocked down a peg by the awsome power of the negative energy. It is way beyond anything I have experienced before. I have first hand experinece with the destruction that it wields. On some of the larger DC systems and larger control relays I have seen things burn up that just seemed impossible. Now I really get it. The acid batteries thrive on this stuff.

We are not just getting started.....but I want to help others along the way carefully.

I now understand a little more about you John. Thanks

Bud

[Col.Zimka]

Hi Forrest,

I enjoyed your descriptions of the battery voltage increases vs. the rpm increases. What is your goal electrically? I've built an SSG and two solid state SSGs and I've realized that I don't have anywhere for the energy to go (other than my 12-volt batteries) but I'm not doing the kind of "work" I want to accomplish. So what am I trying to do with my SSGs? I want to run my Samsung refrigerator ( about 500 watts ), it's a beverage fridge. I'm thinking that I would need probably about four times that capacity in batteries and a nice bank of capacitors to match to run an inverter properly. Has anyone else tried to bump up their SSGs to run an appliance like a fridge? Are there other options for running a refrigerator's compressor?

Cheers,

Col

[Forrest]

Hi Col,

Well I just purchased 8 L-16 batteries. They are approx 360 AH each and I should be able to make 2 banks of 24volt paralelled together to make 700AH. This should be a start to a backup system in case the day comes when we might need it. I have a large energizer in my mind in construction and partially on paper. Part of my input for this devise is a wind mill and a 1 kv solar panel bank. The whole thing revolves around running the large ssg so that the discharge time of the bank becomes extended and because of the neg energy charging should be able to extend the life of the batteries by keeping the hydrogen sulphide from becoming a problem over time. That is my goal anyway.

Bud

[Col.Zimka]

Hi Forrest,

Thank you for the reply, especially the battery details. So it sounds like an SSG Energizer is more for battery maintenance and topping-off than for outright power generation, as I see that you are using wind and solar as your primaries. I've wanted to ask the question "can the SS SSG power my refrigerator" for quite some time. Hmmm. So maybe the 1984 Bedini Free Energy Generator (page 47 - 81, Bedini Free Energy Generation, 2nd Edition) might be more up to the task - if I could locate the details on how to wind/build the Energizer/Magneto part. Any thoughts on this? I've located all the parts for this but I want to do this one "by the book". I'm sure the battery bank you mention would still be necessary. Safety first.

Thank you so much for sharing your input and ideas.

Cheers,

Col

[John_Koorn]

Col, absolutely the SSG can power your refrigerator. But not directly. The SSG is primarily a battery charger that also rejuvenates your batteries and makes them last longer than a conventional battery charger.

You can then connect an inverter to your batteries to run your refrigerator or modify your refrigerator's motor to run off DC.

If you are interested in building the 1984 machine the coil winding details are on John Bedin's website. His website address is on the bottom of every one of his posts on this forum.

John K.

[Ren]

Hi All, After I made the post about the construction pictures of the quad coil I was thinking as to why I wrote the article. It came down to this...I was experimenting with the aluminum quad coil and needed some new info while charging a garden tractor battery. I thought back to some of the DVD's where there was talk of running the ssg on higher voltage. So I fired up the quad coil sitting adjacent to the little coil...both running on 12 volts. The quad coil is not afixed and is loose. Then I thought about 24 volts so I cliped two batteries together in series and and wow did the rpm change abruptly. It sped up from say 140 rpm to around 300 rpm! I thought about the tape holding the magnets at this speed. I ran it for a minute or so and then said what the heck..... lets try 36 volts. I put another battery in series and holly s**t did things go wild! The rpm then took off and my guess is we were running at 400-500 rpm. I thought really seriuously about the tape holding the magnets and had to make a decision weather to run away or try to shut it off while my arm was in the path of the magnets. The machine was not done increasing speed! I was scared! I switched it off and decided that we need to investigate further. I swithched back to 24 volts input and checked the charging battery....it had boiled some of the acid out onto the bench. So I decided to hook a pair of 12 volt garden batteries in series to slow down the charge process to see if I could control things. As I let the quad coil run on 24 volts I noticed that both batteries were boiling and some of the acid was running out of the top and onto the bench. Mind you that the batteries were both cold to touch. This is what led me to believe that I could handle charging those L16's. This the break thru I have been searching for. The higher voltage is where things change dramaticlly.

I have also been knocked down a peg by the awsome power of the negative energy. It is way beyond anything I have experienced before. I have first hand experinece with the destruction that it wields. On some of the larger DC systems and larger control relays I have seen things burn up that just seemed impossible. Now I really get it. The acid batteries thrive on this stuff.

We are not just getting started.....but I want to help others along the way carefully.

I now understand a little more about you John. Thanks

Bud

Hi Bud,

I built a testing bed some time ago to see what the circuit (mjl21194's) could handle in terms of input power. Here is a short video.

Please note, due to very limited resources there is only a 24v bank in the charging position. I strongly advise that the charging battery be as high or higher than the input voltage at all times. I only performed this test once at higher input voltages, everything was fused because I was running off a variac, but there is still significant risk of damage to the circuit components. Looking back I cant believe there wasnt a malfunction. Also, as you have noted, speed increase is unavoidable, I built my rotor inside a stainless cylinder for this reason, it is nearly impossible to throw a magnet this way.

At higher input voltages there is an increasing need to "beef up" your trigger resistances, not only higher resistances, but higher wattage. IMHO if you are planning to run higher voltages (over36v) you need to consider your coil and its current draw. My three coiler as seen above could be limited to 1 amp input, at 12v or 120v. This may not always be the case, when first testing fuse your input incase of destruction, be it circuit, or rotor, neither is good. If circuit, the potential for fire is high, especially if your coil is low resistance, your input is high (50v+) and your batteries are trojans (or high amperage capable). A melted coil/s could be a matter of seconds, with ignition/fire following shortly after. Please be safe. I have friends that have pushed more than double the input I did, but always from a fused power supply AFAIK.

Higher voltages may not be beneficial either, you must have a good grasp of the circuit and design. It certainly makes it alot easier to pop your components. As always, correct repeated load testing of the charging battery will give you a good idea on how well it is charging.


Regards

[John_Koorn]

Ren, That was awesome. Thanks for sharing Did you get an idea of what the torque was like. Do you think you could have run a generator off it - maybe like a window motor style lenz-less generator?

John K.

[Ren]

Hi John,

It starts to build up some momentum, no serious torque like the window motor though. This is the energizer I am using to drive a flux gate, low cogging and no bemf. I don't think it will need more than 24v input however. So the right sort of generator yes, I think it could work well. I'd love to have 2 120vdc banks of 10 x 20amp/hr batteries. Run it in series mode then discharge the charging bank in a parallel configuration. I can see certain advantages this way though I'm not sure how the series charging would go, especially if you get a dud battery in the string. At least discharging in parallel should even out resting voltages.

I'll keep you posted as to how the g flux goes, almost well enough to start winding its coils.

Regards

[Forrest]

Hi Ren, Just saw your post and video....really good stuff and much to think about and consider. When these machines are small things are somewhat bulletproof. When we scale things up then the serious implications start taking hold like electronic component failure which could result in a fire or meltdown. Not only are the components expensive but it is the time and energy put into the entire unit. Fusing things along the way makes very good sense. Thanks for the heasds up.

Bud

[Tom C]

I would strongly suggest you stay at 24 volts, no higher, the coil parameters need to change when voltage goes higher. that is what I remember from a conversation with JB at the last convention.


Tom C

[lost_in_samoa]

the coil parameters need to change when voltage goes higher.

Can I have some clue as to what those parameters might be? I am working to end up with an energizer that will service a 48vdc battery bank.

Thank you

[acedragoni]

Staying on topic, can a 12v, 24v, or 48v inverter (depending on the configuration of voltage production the SSG built), can the wires hooked up to the charging batteries be connected to the inverters and thereby produce electricity for a couple of 15W lights, a small desk fan, and a laptop power supply? Enough to operate in 10 to 12 hours?

I'm beginning to understand that the ordinary SLA UPS battery or FLA car battery can be converted into a higher voltage - longer discharging battery. Can these "converted" battery (I'm calling them Bedini batteries because they are being charged differently using the Bedini SSG) be used for the wind turbine or solar cells instead of the more pricey deep charge batteries?

Or better yet, going back to the first question: Rigging the Bedini SSG into an energizer/generator that while recharges the Bedini batteries will also power up a few lights and some small electrical equipment (small electric fan and a laptop) using inverters.

[Tom C]

Staying on topic, can a 12v, 24v, or 48v inverter (depending on the configuration of voltage production the SSG built), can the wires hooked up to the charging batteries be connected to the inverters and thereby produce electricity for a couple of 15W lights, a small desk fan, and a laptop power supply? Enough to operate in 10 to 12 hours?

I'm beginning to understand that the ordinary SLA UPS battery or FLA car battery can be converted into a higher voltage - longer discharging battery. Can these "converted" battery (I'm calling them Bedini batteries because they are being charged differently using the Bedini SSG) be used for the wind turbine or solar cells instead of the more pricey deep charge batteries?

Or better yet, going back to the first question: Rigging the Bedini SSG into an energizer/generator that while recharges the Bedini batteries will also power up a few lights and some small electrical equipment (small electric fan and a laptop) using inverters.

you cannot charge and discharge batteries at the same time...... they need to charge, then discharge. that is why JB talks about backpopping the primary when the battery is OFF (not supplying current to the SG) I dont know what you mean by converted, they run at 2 volts per cell, that is standard electrical theory. you can series batteries so you get higher voltages, but your amp hours stay the same. you can parallel batts and get more amp hrs at the same voltages. so you need 2 banks of batts, one to charge one to run. amp hours is amp hours, you need to figure out how many watts you need, then calculate your battery bank.... imagine if it were solar panels, the calculations are the same for the battery bank.

you need DC appliances, inverters are a horrible waste of energy, simply horrible.

honestly the best way to get where you are going is to start with a couple of solar panels to run the SG and your load sin the daytime, then run at night off the batteries charged by the SG.

Tom C

[Tom C]

the SG circuit and coils as designed are for a maximum 24 volt primary, there are many changes that I do not know of to make it function correctly at higher voltages. coil inductance primarily, and transistor possibly. you will have to do some research.

Tom C

[acedragoni]

I dont know what you mean by converted, they run at 2 volts per cell, that is standard electrical theory.

The right term may be "enhanced".

When I started researching on alternative energy sources, I decided a vertical axis wind turbine (VAWT) would be my best bet. Since cloudy skies would interrupt the supply of power to a solar setup and you cannot gather energy when night comes. For me, the only disadvantage to the wind turbine is if the wind falls below the minimum wind speed for the wind turbine to operate at optimum. I was thinking of other ways to overcome this disadvantage until I came across the Bedini SSG on Youtube.

I was fascinated with the rotor spinning at high RPMs. Then I began building the SSG, burned a few transistors, fried a few more pots until the SSG is up and running. Now I'm thinking of what I might harness beyond the simple SSG to run a few lights, an electric fan and a laptop. I could rig the SSG to turn the rotor of the VAWT. My reason is that SSG runs on a much consistent speed than that the VAWT being normally driven by the wind. The problem is there could not be enough torque and I could be using more magnets than I would normally use (a set of magnets for the SSG and a set of magnets for the VAWT) since the SSG is all north all and the VAWT is alternating N-S. There's no need to pour resin over the VAWT rotor and stator as this will be an indoor setup.

So I'm currently building an SSG out a a 12-inch hard plastic round chopping board of 1/4" thick. If it can handle a meat cleaver, it can handle a few hundred or even a thousand RPMs. As for the arrangement of magnets, I'm thinking of outside sets of magnets and inside sets of magnets. Both sets of magnets are all north out. Three SSG coils runs the rotor pushing the outside magnets, the VAWT coils are in between the outside and inside magnets. Problem now are the magnets as there's none available in my country Philippines. So for the prototype, I'm currently using 1 1/2 inch ceramic ring magnets with 3/4" inner diameter and 1/4" thick. I broke a few more magnets and stuck a 3/4" x 1/4" piece of magnet inside the inner diameter and hot glued the magnet and wrapped it up with packing tape. So far this is what I'm using for the single coil SSG prototype and no problem on it. Using a 23/26 AWG with 12v7Ah SLA UPS batteries. Input amps is 140mA to 210mA and output amps is about 40mA to 60mA. Currently working of the VAWT coils using AWG 18. I'm just concerned of the Lenz effect over the VAWT magnets.