Anomalous acceleration under increased load....

[min2oly]

Tom,

RS,
Thanks for the info. Glad to see others have seen this too. I have had it quit on me too. I have to clean the contacts and the commutator every 12-18 hours, or at least re-position the contacts on the commutator on the fly to extend the run time a bit without having to stop it.

Isn't this just a hoot? Dang I'm having fun with this!!!

-Woody

Woody,
Have you tried using the contacts as a trigger to the base of a MJL21194, So the current goes through the transistor instead of the contacts? Or is this how you are already doing it?
kind regards,
Patrick

[RS_]

Patrick,

No, I have never tried to use a conventional motor like that with a genny coil, but I know what will happen, the motor will pull more current amd slow down when the genny coil/ cap pulser load is added. as is standard theory.....

So seeing the SSG pull less current at a higher speed under a load, is totally non standard behavior, but I have seen it many, many times on several different setups.........

But there is a narrow window in how much load you can add, and not have to re adjust the SSG circuit to get it back into a sweet spot

you cant just keep adding genny coils and expect it to keep working.....

[Woody]

Woody,
Have you tried using the contacts as a trigger to the base of a MJL21194, So the current goes through the transistor instead of the contacts? Or is this how you are already doing it?
kind regards,
Patrick
[ATTACH=CONFIG]703[/ATTACH]

Patrick,

I am using a reed switch to trigger an MJL21194 for the cap dump. The commutator is just being used to cut the primary out during the cap dump for the sake of simplicity. I may try that idea though. It would certainly take care of having to clean the contacts! Even simpler yet would be a three contact commutator like the one used on the 1984 machine in FEG. I actually want to build a 1984 type unit as well. Looks like a fun project.

[Marc Hamen]

Anomalous acceleration

Patrick,

No, I have never tried to use a conventional motor like that with a genny coil, but I know what will happen, the motor will pull more current amd slow down when the genny coil/ cap pulser load is added. as is standard theory.....

So seeing the SSG pull less current at a higher speed under a load, is totally non standard behavior, but I have seen it many, many times on several different setups.........

But there is a narrow window in how much load you can add, and not have to re adjust the SSG circuit to get it back into a sweet spot

you cant just keep adding genny coils and expect it to keep working.....

Hello all, this is my first post, I have works on this motor on the last 10 years, now ,this post is very interresting , I have this effect on my all Bedini motor tested, here my last vidéo with a very good Sweet spot, look the Amp.... I have replaced my secondary batt with a incandescent light :

I have another effect, I have added 2 coils on this motor, just a dynamo coil, and the rotor accelerate. If the bridge is short circuited, the rotor accelerate also , the same effect that the Kromrey , if you want, i'm post vidéo with this effect.

Best regards,

MH

PS: John Bedini , your are a master!!! ( why on the place of the resistor for sustaing my arc?)

[Floris]

Hi Patrick,

just wanted to let you know I also changed out my neo's for smco's on the 3pm kit. Magnets were super glued and I used boiling water to get them out, let the rotor get hot and use a hammer or other steel item and keep tapping softly on the magnet, it will slowly come up. The whole job took me about 20 mins and there's no problem with the rotor at all.

I know have the new magnets in and am doing tests now. I actually have a fast rotor at 12v approaching 6000rpm (fully advanced) @200ma but not the best charging. Been playing with spacing, seems to needs adjustment.
Also Zooming in on the output spike I actually see two spikes, one from the master and the second larger one from the two power coils. Not sure why they dont align, I don't remember this from earlier work with the 3pm.

Anyway, more discussing in the 3pm magnets thread.

[min2oly]

Hi Patrick,

just wanted to let you know I also changed out my neo's for smco's on the 3pm kit. Magnets were super glued and I used boiling water to get them out, let the rotor get hot and use a hammer or other steel item and keep tapping softly on the magnet, it will slowly come up. The whole job took me about 20 mins and there's no problem with the rotor at all.

I know have the new magnets in and am doing tests now. I actually have a fast rotor at 12v approaching 6000rpm (fully advanced) @200ma but not the best charging. Been playing with spacing, seems to needs adjustment.
Also Zooming in on the output spike I actually see two spikes, one from the master and the second larger one from the two power coils. Not sure why they dont align, I don't remember this from earlier work with the 3pm.

Anyway, more discussing in the 3pm magnets thread.

Hi Floris,
thanks, I tried many methods and gave up. I will try the boiling method.

interesting find there with the alignment of the spike :-) surprised me the first time also. move the master around and watch it re-align. So what does that mean? the trigger is at the same time? so the magnet timing really does play a role then?

Alas, I did not spend enough time with it to have any answers.
kind regards,
Patrick

[DeepCut]

Hi Patrick, long time no chat

I've been working on acceleration under load (AUL for short !) for a little over a year now, having watched the Thane Heins videos (youtube channel shutdown now), it was the only thing i'd seen that i could replicate and see the anomaly for myself so easily.

A youtube guy called OUG made some interesting videos, but then he closed his channel down, but i have all the OUG videos archived at my channel :

https://www.youtube.com/user/deepcut66?feature=mhee

It's a real effect and it does save energy. I've got the effect with a simple transformer as well, easier to experiment with than a rotor (and less noisy !).

It's not a surprise that Bedini builders are seeing the effect, hopefully more minds means more creative ways of using this effect !

I've been a bit busy for a while but i've started experimenting again recently, i hope to put up some more videos soon.


All the best,

DC.

[Floris]

Hi Floris,
thanks, I tried many methods and gave up. I will try the boiling method.

interesting find there with the alignment of the spike :-) surprised me the first time also. move the master around and watch it re-align. So what does that mean? the trigger is at the same time? so the magnet timing really does play a role then?

Alas, I did not spend enough time with it to have any answers.
kind regards,
Patrick

Hi patrick,

after looking a little more at the two spikes I find that the first one is the mastercoil, the other two are close together but after the first one and not on top of eachother. By pushing the top coils a little aside I can put the spikes on top of eachother, thereby increasing the second spike. Looking at the triggersignal without no power it is the same One big one, then two smaller ones just behind eachother. I have to admit that one of my magnets is not fitted perfect so that the pull from that magnet is bigger to the core than the others. So my guess is that I am looking at a not perfect machined rotor. I'm strongly thinking about making myself a new alu rotor on the lathe, just to see what we can win and also to try a six magnet rotor...

[min2oly]

Hi patrick,

after looking a little more at the two spikes I find that the first one is the mastercoil, the other two are close together but after the first one and not on top of eachother. By pushing the top coils a little aside I can put the spikes on top of eachother, thereby increasing the second spike. Looking at the triggersignal without no power it is the same One big one, then two smaller ones just behind eachother. I have to admit that one of my magnets is not fitted perfect so that the pull from that magnet is bigger to the core than the others. So my guess is that I am looking at a not perfect machined rotor. I'm strongly thinking about making myself a new alu rotor on the lathe, just to see what we can win and also to try a six magnet rotor...

Hi Floris,
nice work figuring that out, sounds about right to me.
I'm not sure I would be too concerned with getting a perfectly machined rotor. I would love to hear What John Bedini thinks on that subject.
His bike wheel does not have the magnets perfectly spaced and some have a stronger effect on the coil than others. there were a couple of us that deduced this from the sound in his videos. I also just noticed his wheel is not perfectly aligned with the coils core. the wheel/center of the magnet sits slightly off center to the coil core. This is one way to control the on time of the transistor.
even though the magnets are rectangular in shape, if you watch some of my vids you'll see that the strength of the magnet is a circle at the center about the size of the coils core. So if you push the wheel off to the side, less of that magnet will pass over the coil.
I digressed - nice work :-)
Patrick

[min2oly]

Hi Patrick, long time no chat

I've been working on acceleration under load (AUL for short !) for a little over a year now, having watched the Thane Heins videos (youtube channel shutdown now), it was the only thing i'd seen that i could replicate and see the anomaly for myself so easily.

A youtube guy called OUG made some interesting videos, but then he closed his channel down, but i have all the OUG videos archived at my channel :

https://www.youtube.com/user/deepcut66?feature=mhee

It's a real effect and it does save energy. I've got the effect with a simple transformer as well, easier to experiment with than a rotor (and less noisy !).

It's not a surprise that Bedini builders are seeing the effect, hopefully more minds means more creative ways of using this effect !

I've been a bit busy for a while but i've started experimenting again recently, i hope to put up some more videos soon.


All the best,

DC.

Hi DC,
I'd be very interested in replicating your work. Do you have a schematic someplace? or is there one vid I should watch to get the gist of it?
I've been sucked into LS's joule ringer cross over. I like lighting a room with 12 volts w/o having to use an inverter. I wonder if there is some way to use your simple transformer in this setup...
Patrick

[min2oly]

What-cha think??
any usable energy created here? or are we just fighting with metal core...
I'm going to release my PMH, and drive a wheal with this config at least.
DC I like how you are conducting your experiments in the vids nice job isolating the effect.
K.R.,
-P

[DeepCut]

Hi, sorry it's been a while !

As for replicating mine it's easy.

For acceleration-under-load (AUL) to appear, the coil must have many turns and high frequency, the fewer turns you have the higher a frequency you must drive the gen coil at.

You want a coil with a large time constant. The time constant is the coil's inductance in Henries divided by the coil's resistance and the load resistance, a short-circuited coil is an infinite load and therefore zero.

I made a spreadsheet where you input all your details and it outputs all the useful stuff :

Time Constant.xlsx

The time constant of the coil is the rise-time of the CEMF, our Lenz effect.

The theory is that, the larger the TC, the later the CEMF peaks, so it pushes the magnet away and speds it up rather than pulling it in and slowing it down.

I'm not sure that this is all that's going on, if you have a higher and higher rise time then the effect should come full circle and slow down the next magnet, until the TC is made even ihgher and shifts into an acceleration band again.

I don't see this, i see the effect getting better the higher the frequency is.

I haven't experimented with driving the coils at their resonant frequencies yet, i am in the process of upgrading the device, a twin-rotor device driven by a DC motor :



I don't like using the SSG as the drive/trigger coil may be effecting the rotor.

The last coil i tested (2LB of 0.4mm wire) had virtually no effect on the open rotor speed or the current draw, my new coil-formers are longer so will have more turns for the same poundage of wire and i hope to cross the line and get a coil that uses the CEMF to accelerate the rotor beyond it's unloaded speed.

It will have 12 magnets on each rotor and 6 coils :



I hope to have the device built and the first new coil tested by the end of the week.


All the best,

DC.