Anomalous acceleration under increased load....

[Woody]

Ok, so I posted this on the old Bedini 2 Yahoo group. I still have not been able to figure out what the blazes is the cause of this, so I'll post it again in hopes that someone has encountered it as well and has some idea what is causing it!

My 3pm which I have converted to 6 motor coil operation exhibits an anomalous acceleration when I add MORE load to the generator coils either by pushing the cores farther down in to the coils, or by adding LED's to the load of the generator coils prior to the bridge rectifier. It only happens when the unit is operating above about 4,000 RPM and the cap pulser is operating. The primary battery interrupter does not have to be working. Go figure. MORE load, but MORE RPMs! It did this when I had the neo magnets installed and also now with the SmCo magnets. The two things that are necessary for this to manifest are RPM above 4,000 and the cap pulser operating. If you want to see the unit, here is a youtube video:

This video does not show the anomaly, but does show the layout of the unit as I have modified it, in operation at 24v. I'll make another video showing the acceleration under load phenomena and post it here later on.

Has anyone else run into this in their experiments?

Thanks!!

-Woody

[John_Koorn]

Hey Woody, great video! That's a real nice setup you have there.

Ive seen that if you get the timing just right on the back-pop you will get faster RPM. this is due to the flipping of the poles in the generator coils that will either attract or repel the rotor magnet. But yes this timing is very tricky to get.

John K.

[Faraday88]

Ok, so I posted this on the old Bedini 2 Yahoo group. I still have not been able to figure out what the blazes is the cause of this, so I'll post it again in hopes that someone has encountered it as well and has some idea what is causing it!

My 3pm which I have converted to 6 motor coil operation exhibits an anomalous acceleration when I add MORE load to the generator coils either by pushing the cores farther down in to the coils, or by adding LED's to the load of the generator coils prior to the bridge rectifier. It only happens when the unit is operating above about 4,000 RPM and the cap pulser is operating. The primary battery interrupter does not have to be working. Go figure. MORE load, but MORE RPMs! It did this when I had the neo magnets installed and also now with the SmCo magnets. The two things that are necessary for this to manifest are RPM above 4,000 and the cap pulser operating. If you want to see the unit, here is a youtube video:

This video does not show the anomaly, but does show the layout of the unit as I have modified it, in operation at 24v. I'll make another video showing the acceleration under load phenomena and post it here later on.

Has anyone else run into this in their experiments?

Thanks!!

-Woody

Hi Woody,

Try this : 24V INPUT BATTERY (RUN ) AND 12V Charge battery.
Load step by step at the input say Incandecent bulbs)
you will observe that with every step of increase in the load bulbs, the RPM of the rotor shoots up.
There are many variations of this load increase rpm Increase effect the above one is a typical one.
what implication you draw with the effect : you can couple a standard motor to the Bedini rotor and pulse operate the Motor from the primary source...what do you think will be the Charge rate at the secondary Battery....? you have one of the variant of Bedini Battery swaper at work!!!!!

Rgds,
Faraday88.

[min2oly]

Hi Woody,
nice and clean.
I am looking forward to your speed under load. maybe shed some light for me...
Kind Regards,
Patrick

[min2oly]

Hi Woody,
I forgot to ask, how did you get the neo's out?
did you have them in w/ super glue?
Thanks,
Patrick

[Woody]

Thanks Patrick! I have enjoyed your youtube videos immensely! I actually intend to use the acetone method to de-neo my other rotors. The rotor I have in the 6 pole is one I had not yet mounted with neo magnets, so all I had to do was switch out the rotor on the shaft with the new one that had the SmCo magnets. The rotor for the gen coils is neo-equipped. I hope to get a video posted soon showing the acceleration phenomenon.

Faraday- Thanks for the test idea. I'm going to try that out!

John- Thanks for the compliment!

-Woody

[Woody]

I made a video of the acceleration phenomenon today and uploaded it to youtube. Here is the text that goes with it:

I mentioned in a previous video that I had noticed an anomalous acceleration when operating at or above 4,000 RPM, and an additional load was added to the generator coils. This video shows the phenomenon taking place. The capacitor pulser has to be operating, although the primary battery interrupter circuit does not. The RPM has to be at or above 4,000, and the capacitor output can be going to either the primary or secondary battery. First an LED is added to the load of the gen coils, and then the gen coil cores are pushed further into the coils which should increase the drag on the shaft even further. This normally slows the unit down, however in this configuration it actually speeds up! After I turned the camera off, the acceleration continued till the RPM's stabilized at 4,305. We started at 4,101. Pretty weird. This stuff is a blast!

And here is the video:

Thanks for checking it out!

-Woody

[min2oly]

Woody,
That's pretty fantastic! especially when you push the core down.
my thought is that this has nothing to do with the SSG side that is driving the wheel.
you've reached the critical numbers in your genny coils and your RPM's.
I remember you said it happens while using an incandescent DC bulb as well - and that was after the bridge rectifier (?)... I can't remember if you ever tried placing an additional third battery there?
I think your's is the first clear build I've seen with that kit backpopping with S1 and S2 .... switching off while backpopping.
Thanks for showing us
If I wasn't caught up in a bunch of other things, I would by stripping and winding right now.
I think you've got it there(even w/o the acceleration phenomena), people should watch your vids...
Kind Regards,
Patrick

[Woody]

Thanks Patrick! I appreciate the encouragement!

Yeah, I agree it doesn't have anything to do with the Radiant side of the system. I was just kinda blathering on there..... should write a script maybe next time.... maybe not sound like I'm not sure what to say next! He, he. It's funny listening to myself on these things. Never really did any youtube videos where I actually said anything before.

Anyway, I have not yet tried a third battery, and I can't remember where I placed the dc incandescent bulb when I tried that. I'll have to do that again. When I replaced the neo's with the SmCo's I couldn't get the effect again because the RPM's were so much lower. I didn't do anything with it for a while, till I decided to try it at 24v where I figured I could get the RPM back up to 4,000 or better. With the SmCo magnets, I have to run at 24v to get that speed. With the old neo's I could get those RPM's with only 12v on the primary side.

There is no question that the charging is much better with the SmCo magnets. The core saturation issue is huge. Before I replaced the neo's this unit could not get a battery much above 13v. NEVER even close to 14v. After about 18 hours of running yesterday, one of the secondary batts was at 14.77v! The other secondary battery was much slower to charge because I had been using it on the primary side of my bike wheel unit, and it has not been conditioned by radiant charging yet. Quite a difference between the two batteries. Radiant ROCKS!

-Woody

[min2oly]

Hi Woody,
I did not think you were blathering at all - very well put together, I would be the last person to criticize anyone's video as I tend to ramble and say things out of context quite frequently :-)
That's some sweet charging you have there.
Patrick

[Tom C]

Thanks Patrick! I appreciate the encouragement!

Yeah, I agree it doesn't have anything to do with the Radiant side of the system. I was just kinda blathering on there..... should write a script maybe next time.... maybe not sound like I'm not sure what to say next! He, he. It's funny listening to myself on these things. Never really did any youtube videos where I actually said anything before.

Anyway, I have not yet tried a third battery, and I can't remember where I placed the dc incandescent bulb when I tried that. I'll have to do that again. When I replaced the neo's with the SmCo's I couldn't get the effect again because the RPM's were so much lower. I didn't do anything with it for a while, till I decided to try it at 24v where I figured I could get the RPM back up to 4,000 or better. With the SmCo magnets, I have to run at 24v to get that speed. With the old neo's I could get those RPM's with only 12v on the primary side.

There is no question that the charging is much better with the SmCo magnets. The core saturation issue is huge. Before I replaced the neo's this unit could not get a battery much above 13v. NEVER even close to 14v. After about 18 hours of running yesterday, one of the secondary batts was at 14.77v! The other secondary battery was much slower to charge because I had been using it on the primary side of my bike wheel unit, and it has not been conditioned by radiant charging yet. Quite a difference between the two batteries. Radiant ROCKS!

-Woody

very nice woody, great to see the smco having an effect. are those coils in the 6 pole primary 23 or 19 awg?
Tom C

[min2oly]

Hi woody,

this just occurred to me while watching my daughters soccer match, as she was finding the right freq dribbling the ball not to fast not too slow, left then right, then hitting the sweet spot... she's only 8.5 but those little coils/legs resonated with the ball to the back of the net.

Tom C. gave me some of the best advice when I was sharing my first SS 8 filer charging a large car battery. He said something like - paraphrase... That's great Patrick now try a bigger battery on the back!
So I did and it worked. rather than rewind coils, try a larger bank on the charging side, or even JB's splitting the diodes method.
whenever you get the chance that is.
Kind Regards,
Patrick

[RS_]

Hello All,

I have seen this effect in several of my SSG builds.

What I did in the early days, is have a single coil Master Slave SSG running at a given RPM, then slide a genny coil hooked to a 2 stage transistor cap pulser charger on another battery, up close to the rotor. At first the rotor will slow down a good bit and the current will go down, then after a few minutes, the RPM will increase to more than it was before adding the genny coil, but the current is still at the same lower value as when running at the slower RPM right after adding the Genny Coil. Later I noticed that I could place the genny coil at a certain phase angle in relation to the SSG coil to increase the effect substantially.

Much Later to test this effect, Chad and I built a Model with a fully adjustable phase angle bracket for 2 genny coils, with one genny coil feeding a car ignition points based Back Popper Circuit built by Dan B., and later a different relay type contactor unit built by Dan B., that was more robust than the car points based system at that high RPM. And the other genny coil feeding another 2 stage transistor cap pulser charger, charging another battery. A bigger slower bike wheel system would have been easier to do this with, but that is where I was at in my understanding at the time, and the equipment I had running to work with.......

With these mechanical based Back Poppers we tested, they would run from 8 hours to about 14 hours before they would quit working. The SSG Drive battery would be in the 13V to 13.2V range and climbing when they failed, and the voltage on the drive battery would plummet to the 12.90 range and falling. We would spend an hour or so resetting the points or contacts, and then run another 8 to 14 hours.........

I have also seen this effect in my 48 strand SSG unit....................

RS

[Woody]

very nice woody, great to see the smco having an effect. are those coils in the 6 pole primary 23 or 19 awg?
Tom C

Tom,
These are just the original coils that came with the 3pm from R-charge. 23awg and 26awg for the master and 23awg for the slaves. I want to wind some new ones with 19awg. Just have not done it yet, but having fun with the unit in the mean time.


Patrick,
I will try the larger bank on the charging side. I have some 12ah slabs that I can throw on there to see the result.


RS,
Thanks for the info. Glad to see others have seen this too. I have had it quit on me too. I have to clean the contacts and the commutator every 12-18 hours, or at least re-position the contacts on the commutator on the fly to extend the run time a bit without having to stop it.

Isn't this just a hoot? Dang I'm having fun with this!!!

-Woody

[min2oly]

Hello All,

I have seen this effect in several of my SSG builds.

What I did in the early days, is have a single coil Master Slave SSG running at a given RPM, then slide a genny coil hooked to a 2 stage transistor cap pulser charger on another battery, up close to the rotor. At first the rotor will slow down a good bit and the current will go down, then after a few minutes, the RPM will increase to more than it was before adding the genny coil, but the current is still at the same lower value as when running at the slower RPM right after adding the Genny Coil. Later I noticed that I could place the genny coil at a certain phase angle in relation to the SSG coil to increase the effect substantially.

Much Later to test this effect, Chad and I built a Model with a fully adjustable phase angle bracket for 2 genny coils, with one genny coil feeding a car ignition points based Back Popper Circuit built by Dan B., and later a different relay type contactor unit built by Dan B., that was more robust than the car points based system at that high RPM. And the other genny coil feeding another 2 stage transistor cap pulser charger, charging another battery. A bigger slower bike wheel system would have been easier to do this with, but that is where I was at in my understanding at the time, and the equipment I had running to work with.......

With these mechanical based Back Poppers we tested, they would run from 8 hours to about 14 hours before they would quit working. The SSG Drive battery would be in the 13V to 13.2V range and climbing when they failed, and the voltage on the drive battery would plummet to the 12.90 range and falling. We would spend an hour or so resetting the points or contacts, and then run another 8 to 14 hours.........

I have also seen this effect in my 48 strand SSG unit....................

RS

Sounds like you all put some serious time into this. So it seems we all have a popping effect in common with our speeding up under load.
RS - this is the first I've heard of anyone speeding up faster than the point of the original speed w/o the genny coil - including T.H.

I'm curious, did you ever try spinning the wheel up to the same RPM using a conventional motor with the same/similar torque and conduct the same experiment?
Kind Regards,
Patrick