3PM Kit Magnets

[Branch Gordon]

So as I understand it now...the magnets that came with the 3PM kit are neodymium...and we need to be using ceramic magnets.

The rotor only allows a certain diameter and thickness of magnet. The neodymiums currently being used are about 9.5mm dia and 4mm thick.

Would these be suitable as a replacement: SuperMagnetMan Rectangle Magnets

[John_Koorn]

Hi Branch,

I think you should be OK with those. I would try putting one in first and then see if they are strong enough to trigger the transistors. If not, you could double stack them.


John K.

[Frederic Goyard]

Hello all,

Happy to be on new forum

So, if I well understand, we need to modify our 3PM kit?
But how to do it without broke our kit, if all all parts are glued and specially the neos on alluminium wheel?
I hope Rick can soon sell a new wheel adapted to easyly replace it

Fred

[Branch Gordon]

3PM Magnets

Thanks John...I'll give it a go. I know I won't be able to double-stack them...as the flywheel is molded with space for a particular size magnet and no more. Two of what I'm gonna buy won't fit. I'll reply again with my results once they arrive...

Hi Branch,

I think you should be OK with those. I would try putting one in first and then see if they are strong enough to trigger the transistors. If not, you could double stack them.


John K.

[Branch Gordon]

Hey Frederic-

I just sent a message to r-charge letting them know about the ceramic issue and asking if they would be willing to sell replacement ceramic magnets, or supply a resource for replacement. I'll post here again with their response...

Hello all,

Happy to be on new forum

So, if I well understand, we need to modify our 3PM kit?
But how to do it without broke our kit, if all all parts are glued and specially the neos on alluminium wheel?
I hope Rick can soon sell a new wheel adapted to easyly replace it

Fred

[Frederic Goyard]

thank's Branch

[Stephan Becker]

Just an idea...
Rick is selling Neos with the 10 Coiler and like modells as well.
Quite a while ago this Neo Question was raised and answered in the old forum already.

Yes - Neos will easily saturate the core cause they are way to strong compared to ceramics.
How ever, if you make the airgap somewhat bigger this issue is gone.
What remains is that that the poles of the neos remain quite tight in width.
This could be solved if you use a bigger magnet.
But this is not a viable solution for the kits because of the predesigned space available.

Best regards
Stephan

[Branch Gordon]

Ok...here's the response I received from Renaissance Charge:

Branch,
Only neo magnets will work on this kit. Ceramics are too week. That recent post is a major contradiction as he has approved of that kit for 3 years and several of his almost identical prototypes use the same neos and rotor. I gave him several models of that kit and he played with them for a long time.

Sincerely,
Renaissance Charge LLC

So...I would like to get confirmation that the neos shouldn't be used in the 3PM kit... I've already ordered the ceramics...

I find it odd that the kit was endorsed by John but came with the neos...

Loving this new forum btw.

Branch

[John_Koorn]

Ok...here's the response I received from Renaissance Charge:



So...I would like to get confirmation that the neos shouldn't be used in the 3PM kit... I've already ordered the ceramics...

I find it odd that the kit was endorsed by John but came with the neos...

Loving this new forum btw.

Branch

Hi Branch,

John Bedini has never endorsed neos for any of the Monopoles. Nor has he endorsed any of the kits that have neos in them. I have spoken to him about this and also seen all of his prototypes in his shop and have photos of them. None of the ones I saw had neos in them, all ceramic #8 magnets.
The machine will run with neos in them, but you won't be able to get the energy out of them. Also with these kits the coils are too small, the ceramics will probably not be able to trigger the transistors and the welding rods are too big for those coils.

John has repeatedly said time and time again "NO NEOS!"

Glad you like the new forum.


John K.

[Branch Gordon]

This is all interesting...and also a bit upsetting considering I paid the money out for this kit, and have done 30 test runs with it trying to get it working properly...only to find out now that the magnets are incorrect.

I am hoping the ceramics work ok and that I don't have to scrap this whole kit and start from scratch...

Thanks for your help...at least it's a step in the right direction...even if it's 5 steps backwards...

Branch

[Tom C]

This is all interesting...and also a bit upsetting considering I paid the money out for this kit, and have done 30 test runs with it trying to get it working properly...only to find out now that the magnets are incorrect.

I am hoping the ceramics work ok and that I don't have to scrap this whole kit and start from scratch...

Thanks for your help...at least it's a step in the right direction...even if it's 5 steps backwards...

Branch

you wont have to scrap the whole Kit, we are working on a mod that will allow you to use the current frame and coil holders, be patient it will be a few weeks.

Tom C

[Tom C]

Ok...here's the response I received from Renaissance Charge:



So...I would like to get confirmation that the neos shouldn't be used in the 3PM kit... I've already ordered the ceramics...

I find it odd that the kit was endorsed by John but came with the neos...

Loving this new forum btw.

Branch

Branch,

I have also seen John's machines, ALL had ceramics, except one, and John did not like how it performed. NONE of His machines, including the 3 pole He has has neo's in it. trust the inventor. dont waste your money on a kit with neo magnets.

Will a neo rotor run, yes of course, will it do as JB's machine do, nope!

Tom C

[Woody]

Hi everyone. I found these magnets that will fit in either the old circular pocket, top insert rotors or the new side insert rotors. They are samarium cobalt. They seem to be a bit stronger than ceramics, but far weaker than neos. I have purchased some, but have not tried them out yet. Here is a link to where I bought them:

cPath_3_27 | products_id_251 | SmCo Magnets 3/8 in x 1/8 in Disc Samarium Cobalt Magnet - Applied Magnets & WindMax Wind Turbines

They are the only magnets I have been able to find that fit the 6 pole rotor, but I've not done any testing with them yet. So, if your just dying to try something not neo in your unit, these will fit.

I'll post with my results when I get the magnets in my unit.

-Woody

[Woody]

I should mention that these magnets are not exactly the same size as the magnets provided originally with the rotors. The diameter is exact, but the vertical dimension is shorter. If you want, you could stack the 1/4 inch diameter x 1/16 inch height magnets under the ones I listed above. This will give you the same height as the original magnets, but the 1/4 inch diameter is slightly smaller than the 3/8 inch size of the originals, and the ones listed above.

-Woody

[John_Bedini]

Help with Monopole

Branch,
Not all is lost with that setup, I'm looking at it to see what can be done with slight modifications. I think everybody should look at what the kit is and what can be done with it to make it very useable. The coils can be changed and so can the magnets by filling the whole space with a ceramic rod magnet. A small thin neo can be used at the south end, inside the wheel by the shaft. I never understood what the floating magnet was about in the wheel it did not make sense to me. I will post some pictures of what I think Rick was looking at in the lab. But I was never questioned about the performance of that energizer. Two such energizer exists in my lab, but they are test units to study the charging effects, one capacitive discharge the other normal SG circuits. The three pole has much bigger neos and did not work as well as the units done with ceramic #8 magnets.
John B