Bedini SG problem - Neon bulb lights once and nothing happens later.

[Gary Hammond]

Thx Gary! Is there a way for me to test these without removing them from this circuit?

It looks like from your video that you have the circuit board unhooked from the coil which is good because the trigger coil needs to be out of the circuit across the base emitter junction. Now just unsolder either end of the trigger diodes from the circuit and you can test the transistor base - emitter junctions with the transistors still soldered to the board.

[John_Koorn]

Hi John K-

Its all good...I appreciate anyone's help.

My primary draw current is 580mA. I am using the Napa lawn/tractor batteries.

It currently takes me 4 fully charged primaries to charge up one battery.

hi Branch, based on your draw current of 0.58A you should be using 11.6Ah batteries. (0.58x20=11.6) So 12 or 13Ah lawn/tractor batteries should be fine. You are running in attraction mode aren't you?

John K.

[Branch Gordon]

Hi John-

Yep, my coil is from you guys and wound counter clockwise. Hooked into the kit as labeled. I am running in attraction.

I just got done de-soldering all my transistors and testing them. All checked out, so i have ruled that out.
I went ahead and soldered new ones from the extra supply you guys ship with the kit, so the board is back in working order.

Here is what I am really confused about man. A couple weeks ago in my other thread Tom C mentioned that I should be getting 1:1 right off the bat with this kit, and if not then something was setup or tuned incorrectly. However, it was always my understanding prior to that post that a number of test runs had to be done to condition, up to 20-30, in order to eventually see the gains and 1:1 charging. So I really would like clarification on this...if I am experiencing normal conditioning my having to use 4 primary charges to charge up one battery, or if there is defintely something wrong with my setup.

The other point i am really confused about is my coil gap. The method I read about for a long time involved holding a washer up to the bottom of the coil, and moving it away from the magnets until it dropped off. That spot was what i understood was the best spot for the coil. But then I have recently been told to adjust the coil gap for max rpm....which for me is as close as possible. As I move my coil away, my rpms drop, and i lose my sweet spot. I have a theory that if i removed my 470 ohm base resistors and replaced them with 100 ohm, and replaced my 250 ohm pot with a 1K pot, i could dial in a lower resistance with the increased coil gap, find the sweet spot again, and be fine. I jut cant get there with my current resistance options, and i dont know if thats the way to go.

I am honestly really frustrated with it...to have built it exactly according to the book and still be having problems. I am really hoping someone can really dig into this with me and help me get it right. I have time in abundance, and can supply video and photos.

Thank u for your help John and everyone!

Branch

hi Branch, based on your draw current of 0.58A you should be using 11.6Ah batteries. (0.58x20=11.6) So 12 or 13Ah lawn/tractor batteries should be fine. You are running in attraction mode aren't you?

John K.

[MrRonsen]

slighlty offtopic

i am lucky to see jb here,
the years go by, and we need success.. before jb leaves us!
so i am glad to see jb is here, typing:
"I can see that I need to go over all this again, and I will keep going over this with everybody until it works like mine. "

i have the teslagenx sg8 kit going on..(after experiences with my own single strand coils)
today i have the sg8 kit going on 8+1 teslagenx coil,
with only 4 strands yet..
and it hits the sky.. in few minutes
my 7Ah and 17Ah batteries, long standing unused around, standing several weeks/months,
hit 16.xx Volts while connected and charging by the sg8 kit.. (maybe they full already.. and not sulphating over time)
with 12.4V primary.. and then charging batts resting over 13.xx V..
wheel with regular ceramic magnets, 108 rpms only so far..

i have only 16 mags on my 57cm outerdiam wheel, will check out to put the 21 on them to get closed to jb as i could...

seeing DVD33, i recognized to use forced charging generator mode to get the initial charge up and
then use the other mode to push the rest with less input..
but the gen mode will charge primary too.. amazing stuff...

go on guys... we will catch it...

my arduino cap-dumper will be re-engaged
hopefully it will be close enough to a true comperator
otherwise i will have to go trough soldering an true pure electronic comperator

[John_Koorn]

Hi John-

Yep, my coil is from you guys and wound counter clockwise. Hooked into the kit as labeled. I am running in attraction.

I just got done de-soldering all my transistors and testing them. All checked out, so i have ruled that out.
I went ahead and soldered new ones from the extra supply you guys ship with the kit, so the board is back in working order.

Here is what I am really confused about man. A couple weeks ago in my other thread Tom C mentioned that I should be getting 1:1 right off the bat with this kit, and if not then something was setup or tuned incorrectly. However, it was always my understanding prior to that post that a number of test runs had to be done to condition, up to 20-30, in order to eventually see the gains and 1:1 charging. So I really would like clarification on this...if I am experiencing normal conditioning my having to use 4 primary charges to charge up one battery, or if there is defintely something wrong with my setup.

The other point i am really confused about is my coil gap. The method I read about for a long time involved holding a washer up to the bottom of the coil, and moving it away from the magnets until it dropped off. That spot was what i understood was the best spot for the coil. But then I have recently been told to adjust the coil gap for max rpm....which for me is as close as possible. As I move my coil away, my rpms drop, and i lose my sweet spot. I have a theory that if i removed my 470 ohm base resistors and replaced them with 100 ohm, and replaced my 250 ohm pot with a 1K pot, i could dial in a lower resistance with the increased coil gap, find the sweet spot again, and be fine. I jut cant get there with my current resistance options, and i dont know if thats the way to go.

I am honestly really frustrated with it...to have built it exactly according to the book and still be having problems. I am really hoping someone can really dig into this with me and help me get it right. I have time in abundance, and can supply video and photos.

Thank u for your help John and everyone!

Branch

Hi Branch, I always adjust the coil gap for maximum RPM. The way I look at it is that at that point there is the least amount of drag and highest efficiency. I've been getting pretty good results that way.

I guess we can eliminate the coil and circuit, so that just leaves the wheel, magnets and frame. Perhaps you could put a video together of your setup with as much detail as possible? If you already have, post it here and we'll take a look at it.

John K.

[Kamen]

The way I look at it is that at that point there is the least amount of drag and highest efficiency.

John, this is probably a stupid question on my part but what do you mean by "drag"? John Bedini also used the same term "In the generator mode you should find very little drag on the machine." the quote is from here: http://www.energyscienceforum.com/sh...ll=1#post11358

How can we tell if the wheel has little or lots of drag?

Thanks,
Kamen

[Branch Gordon]

So...a little embarrassed. I'm not sure if I was drinking when I glued these magnets on this wheel or what...because I KNOW that they are supposed to be north facing out. But I'm holding up my compass to them right now, and the NORTH pointer on my compass is being attracted to the outside of the wheel...indicating that I have SOUTH facing out.

SO....haha. Maybe that's all this is... I just need to reverse the connections on the coil right? Instead of ungluing all these magnets..that would fix this up?

Here's a video so you can see what I've got going on: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEqGdsUoyzc

Hi Branch, I always adjust the coil gap for maximum RPM. The way I look at it is that at that point there is the least amount of drag and highest efficiency. I've been getting pretty good results that way.

I guess we can eliminate the coil and circuit, so that just leaves the wheel, magnets and frame. Perhaps you could put a video together of your setup with as much detail as possible? If you already have, post it here and we'll take a look at it.

John K.

[Tom C]

@Branch your napa batteries have been run on your CBA to test for capacity, please tell me what it is for both batteries. also do you have a hydrometer so that you can tell us state of charge after running on your standard charger.@MrRonsen please do a load test on your batteries.. batteries can sit and capacity drops so it looks like they charge very fast, but in truth they are very sulfated so have no capacity. 17 AH battery can have only 1 AH of capacity depending upon how sulfated they are.Tom C

[Branch Gordon]

I don't have a hydrometer. When I ran their initial tests on the CBA, they were both around 14AH. That was discharging down to 12V.

If I discharge down to 12.2V, I'm getting about 10AH out of them.

I actually cannot figure out how to open these NAPA batteries. I see they have two tabs on the sides where it looks like you can stick a prying tool in...but all it does it bend when I try...I didn't want to force too hard and break it. How do you open these?

@Branch your napa batteries have been run on your CBA to test for capacity, please tell me what it is for both batteries. also do you have a hydrometer so that you can tell us state of charge after running on your standard charger.@MrRonsen please do a load test on your batteries.. batteries can sit and capacity drops so it looks like they charge very fast, but in truth they are very sulfated so have no capacity. 17 AH battery can have only 1 AH of capacity depending upon how sulfated they are.Tom C

[Tom C]

are those are sealed lead acids? hmm I thought you got the flooded lead acids. if they are SLA they are not meant to be opened..... no matter they should run plenty long.... here is the thing if you have a 14 ah battery and you are running it down 4 times even to 12 .2 then thats 40 AH to put 10 AH back in.... not right at all. please check your coil strands individually to make sure the strands are not shorted internally to each other. they are checked before they leave here, but please check again. if its shorted inside will send you new one. I am grasping at straws here. the only other thing that may be going on is you need a bit more current off the primary..... your current seems right but all batteries are different. depending upon plate construction it my be very resistant to pulse charging. again grasping at straws here.

Tom C

Tom C

[Branch Gordon]

Well...I thought they were flooded lead acids. I went in and asked for lawn/tractor batteries at NAPA...I saw the tabs and just assumed I would be able to pry those up and open it up. They look exactly like the ones I see in John's videos. The NAPA part # is 8223N.

I will check my strands for sure. I am betting it was just my magnet orientation being wrong on my wheel...not sure if you saw my post from about an hour ago...

are those are sealed lead acids? hmm I thought you got the flooded lead acids. if they are SLA they are not meant to be opened..... no matter they should run plenty long.... here is the thing if you have a 14 ah battery and you are running it down 4 times even to 12 .2 then thats 40 AH to put 10 AH back in.... not right at all. please check your coil strands individually to make sure the strands are not shorted internally to each other. they are checked before they leave here, but please check again. if its shorted inside will send you new one. I am grasping at straws here. the only other thing that may be going on is you need a bit more current off the primary..... your current seems right but all batteries are different. depending upon plate construction it my be very resistant to pulse charging. again grasping at straws here.

Tom C

Tom C

[John_Koorn]

Well...I thought they were flooded lead acids. I went in and asked for lawn/tractor batteries at NAPA...I saw the tabs and just assumed I would be able to pry those up and open it up. They look exactly like the ones I see in John's videos. The NAPA part # is 8223N.

I will check my strands for sure. I am betting it was just my magnet orientation being wrong on my wheel...not sure if you saw my post from about an hour ago...

Hi Branch,

It IS a flooded lead-acid, but "maintenance free" just means NAPA would rather you replace the battery than top up the electrolyte. http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/Ca...223_0399052202

Even so, you should be able to get the top off (you may have to break it off). Once you have that off you should see the covers for the cells that you MAY be able to unscrew so you can get to the cells. I've done this with a few "maintenance free" FLA's.

Hope it helps...

John K.

[Branch Gordon]

Hi John-

So a recap of changes I have made.

1. I discovered my magnets south facing out on my wheel...oops!
2 I swapped all the cables around fron my coil to circuit to compensate for wrong magnet orientation (was this the correct thing to do?)
3. I am still plying with coil gap while watching rpm and my scope.
4. I took out my 470 ohm resistors and put in 220 ohm resistors instead.

Here is a video, which also shows my scope shot: http://youtu.be/j5bX4oiQ_Tw

Other details: my frame is solid oak. Brass screws. Last time I checked my wheel had a free spin time of over 11 minutes. 12 gauge wires going to batteries.

Hi Branch, I always adjust the coil gap for maximum RPM. The way I look at it is that at that point there is the least amount of drag and highest efficiency. I've been getting pretty good results that way.

I guess we can eliminate the coil and circuit, so that just leaves the wheel, magnets and frame. Perhaps you could put a video together of your setup with as much detail as possible? If you already have, post it here and we'll take a look at it.

John K.

[Branch Gordon]

I am just gonna rip these magnets off my wheel and correct them first before I try anything else. Better to have it right. I will update once that is done and I can assess any improvement.

[Tom C]

coil orientation

the correct coil orientation for north out magnets is that the start of coil is at the bottom...... the bundles wires coming out of the center.

Tom C