Bedini SG problem - Neon bulb lights once and nothing happens later.

[AndBirch]

Hi all,
According to the "Bedini SG - The Complete Beginner's handbook":
I have built a Bedini SG - simplified circuit on page 28 - the coil wound: 40m of 0.8mm - Plastic spool: 9.5cm x 9.5cm x 2cm, rods Inside, with all the components as listed.
On the basic diagram, I have connected a neon bulb C/E of he transistor.
When I connect 12v, I see just a light on the neon bulb and nothing happens without any rotation of the bicycle wheel. I don't hear any noise around the coil.
I have also tried the circuit on page 62 with 2 batteries. The problem is similar.
What's wrong ?
Thank you in advance.
AndBirch.

[Dave Wing]

Probably to high a resistance on the trigger coil going to the base... Lessen the resistance value until neon goes out as the circuit is in self oscillation. Resistance values to make the machine run for initial testing choose somewhere around 50 Ohms and work your way up from there. Get a potentiometer to make adjustments easier.

Dave Wing

[AndBirch]

Thanks, I go forward, the space between the coil and the wheel has been reduced to less than 5mm. Now when I disconnect the charge battery, the bulb neon flashes normally, thus the whhel loose its speed and stops after a few rounds. There is no force to maintain the movement.
The Wheel is a 26" with 18 magnets 20mm x 20mm x 60mm. Is the resistor value the possible cause also of that trouble ?
TIA, AndBirch.

[Dave Wing]

Forgot to mention the neon with a good secondary battery should not light off... Do not attempt to run without a secondary battery connected if that is what you are doing, you could harm your transistor. Try a 50 ohm resistor if the machine will not run then change out your transistor with a new one. Post pics of your set up to better diagnose what is going on.

[AndBirch]

I did connect the charge battery and I did check that the transistor never was (even) warn. I will try to find a 50ohm resistor and report to you what's happening ?

[Dave Wing]

Even though your transistor seems to be working fine, it can still be damaged and give an indication that it is ok when it is not. I have seen damaged transistors appear to switch fine but do not charge the secondary battery very well... Don't be afraid to put a new transistor in there.


The best practice is to keep many new ones on hand for experiment and situations like this. Find a Potentiometer this will aid in adjusting and tuning the machine to get it to run properly, I recommend purchasing two potentiometers one from 0-100ohm and one 0-1000 ohm, minimum 2-3 watts. Run both in series on the trigger this will give you a good feel for what base resistance does to the operation of the machine and offer you flexibility, with the best of both worlds when it comes to tuning... a fairly fine and also course adjustment.

[John_Koorn]

AndBirch,

you our also need to make sure you are running the machine in attraction mode as you don't want any drag on the wheel.

John K.

[John_Bedini]

To All,
The SSG machine in the DVD 33 is set to certain values, it would be the same machine I ran at the show. The Main coil is 130 feet long 8 twisted pairs 7 number 20 wires and one trigger number 23 wire.
The base resistance is 470 ohms with a series resistor of 12 ohms. No neon lights as they are not needed. the magnets are spaced for 21 magnets north facing to the coil, however the machine is in attraction mode only to perform the three functions. In the generator mode you should find very little drag on the machine. The transistors should not even get hot at all, in any mode. If the machine is in repulsion then expect heat and not good charging. The machine is set up for 12 volts only!!!. I did not run the machine here at 24 volts but with a mod to the coil you could. Yes I think I draw the diode backwards then later corrected it. The machine here is running at about 2 amps. One thing I might point out is in generator mode the machine acts more like a G-Field generator if it is built properly. John K can help with this as he was here during the tests. Generator mode is a forced charge to get the battery up to voltage quickly then revert back to normal charging once you get past the impedance change. We all need to be on the same page here if the machine is going to work right as it did during the show. I can see that I need to go over all this again, and I will keep going over this with everybody until it works like mine. I have used this machine all day long in generator mode. You can not run it off a wall supply and get the same results. In generator mode it wants to back charge the primary battery as could be seen at the show. In generator mode using liner regulators with a capacitor in front of the regulator it can be set to only push the battery to 15 volts and that is where you want it. So lets get this machine to work right and then you can make it your way.

If You need a part then call me and I will try to get you the right device if I have it.John

[Branch Gordon]

Hi John-

Thank you for the clarification. I have been running the 4 trans. Experimenter Kit and was curious if I should expect to get 1:1 charging with it, in mode 1, without using a cap pulser?

That is what I am working towards, so if I need to upgrade to an 8 trans board and 8 filar coil, and build a comparator circuit then that is what i will do. Otherwise I will keep conditioning in mode 1 until I see 1:1.

To All,
The SSG machine in the DVD 33 is set to certain values, it would be the same machine I ran at the show. The Main coil is 130 feet long 8 twisted pairs 7 number 20 wires and one trigger number 23 wire.
The base resistance is 470 ohms with a series resistor of 12 ohms. No neon lights as they are not needed. the magnets are spaced for 21 magnets north facing to the coil, however the machine is in attraction mode only to perform the three functions. In the generator mode you should find very little drag on the machine. The transistors should not even get hot at all, in any mode. If the machine is in repulsion then expect heat and not good charging. The machine is set up for 12 volts only!!!. I did not run the machine here at 24 volts but with a mod to the coil you could. Yes I think I draw the diode backwards then later corrected it. The machine here is running at about 2 amps. One thing I might point out is in generator mode the machine acts more like a G-Field generator if it is built properly. John K can help with this as he was here during the tests. Generator mode is a forced charge to get the battery up to voltage quickly then revert back to normal charging once you get past the impedance change. We all need to be on the same page here if the machine is going to work right as it did during the show. I can see that I need to go over all this again, and I will keep going over this with everybody until it works like mine. I have used this machine all day long in generator mode. You can not run it off a wall supply and get the same results. In generator mode it wants to back charge the primary battery as could be seen at the show. In generator mode using liner regulators with a capacitor in front of the regulator it can be set to only push the battery to 15 volts and that is where you want it. So lets get this machine to work right and then you can make it your way.

If You need a part then call me and I will try to get you the right device if I have it.John

[John_Koorn]

Hi John-

Thank you for the clarification. I have been running the 4 trans. Experimenter Kit and was curious if I should expect to get 1:1 charging with it, in mode 1, without using a cap pulser?

That is what I am working towards, so if I need to upgrade to an 8 trans board and 8 filar coil, and build a comparator circuit then that is what i will do. Otherwise I will keep conditioning in mode 1 until I see 1:1.

Hi Branch (yeah, probably not the John you wanted to respond),

You just have to size your batteries to that kit and you should have no problem getting at least 1:1. What's your draw current when it's tuned in attraction mode and mode 1? Just multiply that by 20 and you have the battery size you need in amp hours.

John K.

[Ed_Morbus]

Thanks John K
Can you make an example of how to calculate

[Branch Gordon]

Hi John K-

Its all good...I appreciate anyone's help.

My primary draw current is 580mA. I am using the Napa lawn/tractor batteries.

It currently takes me 4 fully charged primaries to charge up one battery.

Hi Branch (yeah, probably not the John you wanted to respond),

You just have to size your batteries to that kit and you should have no problem getting at least 1:1. What's your draw current when it's tuned in attraction mode and mode 1? Just multiply that by 20 and you have the battery size you need in amp hours.

John K.

[Branch Gordon]

I think my transistors might be bad. I shot a quick video of me testing. I am getting readings in both directions from the base to emitter. Does someone mind watching and confirming please?

http://youtu.be/vgZvHaX96Ss

[Gary Hammond]

Hi Branch,

This is normal!! You are testing the base -emitter resistance still installed in the circuit. The base diode junction is in parallel with the base emitter junction but reverse biased to it. With the leads one way you're reading the forward bias resistance (actually voltage drop) of the diode junction, and with the leads reversed you are reading the forward bias resistance (actually voltage drop) of the emitter -base junction.

[Branch Gordon]

Thx Gary! Is there a way for me to test these without removing them from this circuit?

Hi Branch,

This is normal!! You are testing the base -emitter resistance still installed in the circuit. The base diode junction is in parallel with the base emitter junction but reverse biased to it. With the leads one way you're reading the forward bias resistance (actually voltage drop) of the diode junction, and with the leads reversed you are reading the forward bias resistance (actually voltage drop) of the emitter -base junction.