Why not shown how to charge one battery with the other at the offical Bedini forum?

[hobbyrobotik]

Hi Gary,

thank you for giving us the pictures and the results. Yes the temperature has effect to the voltage and the charge/discharge parameters.
Is it possible to make screen copy fromyour pic #4 and pic #5 to see the curves and values clearer?

have a nice day

[Tom C]

nice work gary! once you get your free spin times up it will get better. wondered when I was gonna see that coil used

Tom C

[Kamen]

Hi Gary,

This is very interesting about not using the diode and getting a better charge. Have you seen the EFV DVD 34 filmed at the last conference? While John Bedini was talking one of his friends took the microphone and described why NOT using the diode is a bad idea. The reason given was that without the diode the charge can go back in a sense that the electrolyte will charge and discharge with each pulse. However if you use the diode the energy can flow in one direction and just keep charging. This is at least how I understood it. I am doing some conditioning of the batteries right now with regular charger, but once that's done I will try Generator mode without the diode to see what it does. When I briefly tried that before the RPM went way down without the diode. With the diode it was faster and when using Radiant it was even faster.

Kamen

[Gary Hammond]

Hi Kamen,

I was running in generator mode without the diode. Just negative to negative. I tested it both with the diode and without the diode, and without the diode gave a little better charging for me. I was using two 1N5408 (3amp/1000v) diodes in parallel (with leads twisted together) for the diode.

I may have to try the DPDT switch. Sounds like a good idea to me!

[Kamen]

One thing I did to go into Radiant mode is to start charging in Generator mode first. Then when the battery is fully charged or almost charged the wheel was spinning fast enough where switching it to Radiant allowed it continue momentum and go into single pulse per magnet. Then the charging completes with Radiant. Haven't done any COP calculations to see if that "double" charge is better or worse than Generator only mode. But this is what John Bedini suggested to start in Generator until the battery impedance gets lower and then go to Radiant so it completes charging faster. In my case I used a 16A DPDT switch that flip between Generator and Radiant modes.

To slow the wheel and reduce amp draw I connected an old stepper motor to the shaft. It just adds some mechanical resistance. Now the primary draw is 1A in Radiant and 2A in Generator mode using 7 power strands with 470 Ohm in in parallel and 12 Ohms in series.

Another interesting thing I discovered was regarding the Generator mode diode. I tried five diodes ranging from 10A to a 140A thinking the larger silicon die may help. The diodes trr (Reverse Recovery Time) ran from 500ns to 50ns. Well to my surprise the 140A diode performed the same as a 10A one. And the recovery time from Standard (500ns) to fast (50ns) worked the same as far as RPM and primary draw. Except, one of those diodes rated at 12A and 50ns trr gave me 12 percent increase in RPM and 2 percent reduce in amp draw and at the same time it got really hot!!! This was so weird that I retested all five diodes again to double-check the RPMs and amp draw. The diode that game me higher RPM and reduced draw was IXYS DSEI 12-10A and it had to be bolted to a heat sink. This diode is a FRED (Fast Recovery Epitaxial Diode). Thinking this may be something worth exploring I just ordered the IXYS HiPerFRED DSEP 12-12A to see how it performs.

If someone has anything to share about the Generator mode diode or using both Generator (first) and Radiant (second) charge modes could you please share your discoveries with the group.

Kamen

[Gary Hammond]

Hi John,

Thanks Gary, those are the numbers I would expect from the machine. They are pretty close to the numbers we got in JB's shop with the bike wheel kit.

Anyone should be able to get these numbers, just build it like Gary has

John K.

I don't know if you noticed or not, but I was running it in generator mode. I haven't run the numbers yet in radiant mode as the wheel has enough turning resistance that it gives double pulses in radiant mode. If I speed it up with compressed air, it will go into single pulses and stay there. I need to get the free spin time up. It's only giving me about 5.5 minutes free spin time. My old wheel was at 11.5 minutes.

It gives only one pulse/magnet in generator mode with both fans, so that's what I checked out first!

[Gary Hammond]

Hi Kamen,

They are 14" diameter, five blade, Dayton aluminum fans model #2MXX7 with 1/2" bore. I ordered them from Grainger. The specs are on the web page. Here's the link. https://www.grainger.com/product/DAY...XX7?s_pp=false

The shaft is just 1/2" bar stock available at most hardware stores and the ball bearings I got from Fastenal.

[Kamen]

Hi Gary,

What are the specs of the fan you are using? After experimenting with various ways to slow the wheel down I will try with a fan. Can you also share a good place to purchase the steel shaft? For the fan I was looking at http://www.remichel.com/ which sells parts for A/C units. Their fans come in sizes of 16", 18", 22", 26" and the fins are under various angles from 16 to 31 degrees. The different fans may be a good way to experiment with various load options.

Kamen

[John_Koorn]

Thanks Gary, those are the numbers I would expect from the machine. They are pretty close to the numbers we got in JB's shop with the bike wheel kit.

Anyone should be able to get these numbers, just build it like Gary has

John K.

[Gary Hammond]

Hi hobbyrobotic,

This morning the charge battery was resting at 12.52 volts, so about .06 volts less than after yesterday's discharge. It got to 0 deg Fahrenheit outside here last night and my shop dropped from 70 deg F to 63 deg F as a result. Don't know if this had any effect on the voltage or not.

I ran another charge as well and this time it took 35 minutes @ 1.6 amps from the primaries to bring the charge battery back up to 16 volts. Then after another hour it was resting at 12.79 volts. Thats .9333 AH in to replace 1.05 AH removed for a cop of 1.125. Again, the energy to run the wheel and pull the two fans was not figured into the equation. The actual cop would be higher if this were added into the equation.

[Tom C]

well this has been a promising thread,

we sell circuits and coils because the last guy who tried had no documentation, no instructions, crappy products and horrible customer service. it is completely impossible to show 1 to 1 on a video because of the naysayers. it even happened on this thread, that patrick did not show anything.

So we provide as much as we can in terms of components and coils that are approved by John B. provide the best possible starting point. at least we can help a bit, all of us at Teslagenx all have "real" jobs elsewhere.

there are so many variables on each persons build, we can hammer the point home as many times as possible as follows:


1 - build like JB
2- use good batteries
3- big wire to and from batteries
4- discharge your primary at C20
5- discharge your secondary battery at C20
6- dont move forward until you get good charging from the standard SG thru experimentation
7- dont do multi coil until you have the single coil mastered
8- read read read about batteries learn about them so you dont destroy them, they are the lynchpin to this tech
9- read read read Tesla
10- read read read Leedskalnin
11- hi freespin time
12- no neo magnets
13- wood frame
14- no breadboards point to point soldering
15- flooded lead acids are best

so the list goes on, all of this is covered in the Beginners SG book.

Tom C

[min2oly]

Ok,
So I had some time to kill this morning and thought, you know, most good batteries do like to rest at about 12.7 volts fully charged. So this is for everyone who is not familiar with my SLAB’s that like to sit at 13V.

Of course this video can only show what I'm talking about not prove anything. You still have to believe I am not up to any trickery. So this is mostly for friends that know I have nothing to prove. Also in the previous video showing the 3pm kit, I did have it charging w/o the modification, and it did not climb as fast as when I employed it.

I hope everyone is having a fantastic weekend.
KR,
Patrick

[hobbyrobotik]

Hi Bob,
Thank you for your assistance.
I hope I can contribute to a better understanding when I spoke obout the language barrier.

Your "...I will tell you exactly what is wrong with that...."

is an important information to the newcomers here.
we can easily deceive ourselves. especially if the batteries are not so clearly broken as mine.

[hobbyrobotik]

Hi hobbyrobotic,



I have been out of town ever since I posted my test results, until a short while ago. I just now started a one amp discharge as you requested at 7:30 PM here (central standard time, USA). I will stop it in exactly one hour and then let it rest for another hour and report the resting voltage as you have requested. It was resting at 12.69 volts at the start of this discharge having fallen from the 12.80 volt reading an hour after the reported charging. 12.69 is it's normal fully charged resting voltage after four or five hours of rest for this particular battery.

I don't usually post videos, only pictures. I was going to post pictures of the recorded charge curve, but the battery in my old camera was dead and my wife was ready to leave town at the time.

I'm not interested in "TOP STAR" or "winner of this thread". I'm only interested in sharing the results of my new ssg. I have performed this exact same test several times with my "second build" ssg in the past, and it always took 40 minutes at 2.0 amps from the primary batteries to recharge the one AH previously withdrawn from the charge battery. That equals 1.3333 AH to replace 1.0 AH for a cop of 0.75 . This was even with out the fans, as it was only turning a 26" bike wheel at smaller extra load.

Hi Gary,

thank you very much for sharing your results. these are facts with a clear and complete statement. I look forward to your pictures and charts.
by the way, I tried to make a joke with "forelle's TOP STAR" and so on, nothing else

stay on your good work

[BobZilla]

Forelle They were talking about branch circuit output when they were talking about the 4 batteries. Go back and look at the wiring if you do not understand. I have used that method myself but instead of branching each transistor I bundled 8 of them into two separate branches, two sets of four. I have double throw switches setup so I can combine them all back together if I want too as well.

Teslagenx can speak for themselves but it seems to me the reason they started offering their products was because they wanted to help people into the experiment. Before they offered their stuff we all had to roll coils ourselves, build our own circuit boards on perf board, match our own components etc.

It is because these guys believe in the technology and did want to "spread" it as you say that they have made things readily available for people to experiment with. I for one am really glad to have them serving our little community because rolling coils out in a field somewhere is a real hassle.

I have 6 brand new flooded lead acid batteries each 9AH and each one is in 10 minutes at 16V and in the half time down,but i think i know what i have to change.

I suspect you are hitting those too hard. Any battery will rise way up like that if you are over driving it. The key is to feed it at a reasonable rate so that it can absorb a charge, slower is better.