Why not shown how to charge one battery with the other at the offical Bedini forum?

[Yaro1776]

John K,

Again, a thanks to you for your explanations and motivating words. Looking forward to the new thread.

Yaro

[John_Koorn]

Hi Yaro, thanks for sharing your experience and test results. You're right, this is a huge learning experience for everyone.

What we are saying is what will get people into the ball park, and into the bunkers. There is no gospel or hard and fast rules, as every setup is different. If it was as easy as Lego blocks, everyone would be doing it
Even if two different people were to buy the same kit and coil, they would get different results to each other. Remember that the batteries are a large part of the equation.
We are finding that most "new" batteries off the shelf require quite a bit of work to get up to full capacity. Battery manufacturers are not forming them like they used to in the days before everything was made in China. The lead is getting thinner and thinner and the quality of the materials just ain't what it used to be. I'm not trying to make excuses, this is just the reality we have to deal with.
As long as you are seeing improvement from cycle to cycle you are on the right track, so keep doing what you're doing. If you're not, then it's time to change something.
Like I said the other day, the kit and coil and the way it was tuned worked very well for the bike wheel kit that was at John's shop at the time. You may need to change yours a little to get you over the top with a COP>1.0. But I can assure you that it is definitely possible, so don't give up.

I will open a new thread on proper testing when I'm done getting it right so everyone can do it with normal equipment, but I must say that you need to do the full measurements to get the correct number.
For example, when we were in John's shop (Tom C, ErikN and I) we not only measured the amp hours we got out of the charge battery after running the machine, but we also measured the energy required to recharge the primary battery. It's not what you would expect But that is the only way to do it unless you have tens of thousands of dollars to spend on equipment to do the exact scientific testing down to the milliwatt or joule.
I recall having a conversation with Peter and John about this. It is just about impossible to accurately measure the radiant energy, because there is no equipment around that will measure it. But we can test and measure so you can see with your own eyes that COP>1.0 is entirely possible.
John has said to us on many occasions that he can't understand why people can't get the machine to work the way it should, but I guess since he invented it, it's probably a little easier for him to understand exactly how it works and how to build it properly.

John K.

[Yaro1776]

Hello John K, Dave Wing, Tom C. and others that have enlivened this informative thread,

Thank you John K for sharing your expertise, along with providing a very lucid and informative explanation of the Bifilar SSG's ability to achieve a COP >1, most encouraging for the followers of this thread. The use of the C20 rate for withdrawal and charging provides very good information to all the builders out there. One point though needs a bit more clarification - particularly with the 7 and 8 transistor builds.

The prevailing SSG gospel states that the current draw from the primary should be about 125 to 250 ma per leg for the coil (TeslagenX kit) - this pushes the total to 1.5 to 2.0 amps for these builds. The normal battery in use is a generic garden tractor battery - say a 230 cca spec. This particular battery is roughly a 10 to 12 Ah actual capacity - NAPA 8224 - verified through three batteries conditioned and load tested. So the C20 draw for this battery is approximately 500 ma. Therein lies one problem.

Granted the draw can be diminished by playing with the gap, however on the 8 transistor builds with a 470 ohm base resistance there is very little play headroom. This does hamper the tuning capabilities. This does force the first time builder into a double or triple parallel battery arrangement to compensate, while they work towards the elusive 1:1 battery arrangement. This is the conundrum.

The best that has been achieved to date in our testing has been a COP of 0.64 Primary output to Charge battery draw down - most have been in the 0.5 to 0.55 area, and then the way lower ones. There have been instances of a higher ratio, but that has been reflective of using a one time higher shutdown charge voltage. For some batteries, goosing them to 15.7v versus 15.3v will result in a higher capacity and shorter charge times for several cycles before slowly reverting back. This is repeatable up to some point.

Anyway, in this continuing adventure the learning process is never-ending. Have managed to mangle two 8 transistor SSG boards and later blow one transistor during a simple run... Wonders will never cease during the never-ending Vermont winter.

Romeo-Kilo check your PM.

Thank you for attention and explanations,
Glad to have this Forum as a backstop,
Yaro

[Dave Wing]

Hi John,

I really appreciate the response, I hope others looking for these specific results are very glad you replied as well.

Dave Wing

[romeo-kilo]

@Patrick,
as English isn't my native language, I don't know exactly if you want to tease me by telling that the time I spent is much too less to ask questions or being frustrated.

I'm looking for over a year now for a proof, that there is a way to "collect energy from the universe". As there are so many different techniques outside, I started with everything about Johnsons Magnetic Motor, went over to the Yildiz Motor, checked the millions of self running magnetic devices, bought books that promised to drastically reduce the costs of electricity for an investment of < 200$ in parts and so on. I found out, that I can't build such a device with the tools I have at home.

Later I've studied Patrick J. Kelly's practical guide to free-energy devices - lots of different ways to tap free energy. So I checked (by searching the internet) all methods for being feasible with my limited tools and limited financials. Because of seeing so many successful Bedini CoP >1 implementations, the amount of money for the test kit looks fine, and the simplicity of the building process I decided to go that route. I bought Aarons beginners book, bought all the parts, and started last summer. First runs were November 2013 with an old secondary battery and the hope to get it back to better capacity. (Got the capacity back to 2.5Ah (rated 13Ah) after 20+ runs).

In the meantime I got the intermediate handbook, balanced the transistors, resistors and diodes, fine tuned the gap to highest speed per mA input, fine tuned the free runtime, bought a scope, bought an additional multi-meter with USB output, searched for sweet spots, checked all sweet spots for the correct waveform on my scope, and used it on 3 brand new and some other 12V batteries. It seems as if my secondary battery doesn't collect the radiant spike, although my scope is showing it. All I got so far to any secondary is the cumulated load that an analogue ampmeter in the secondary circuit will see.

All the fine tuning and all the uncountable hours of work for just a fraction more CoP - that's what I mean with frustration.
Next step will be finalizing my Cap pulser. Unfortunately my wife is already unhappy with the "endless" time I spent, so I have to carefully balance the time I spend with the technology and with my family.

Thank you for sharing your video with the pendulum. When my wife is away for a weekend in summer I will repeat your ideas.

Ralf

[John_Koorn]

Hi Dave,

To be totally clear and to lot mislead anyone. The setup was an 18" bike wheel, normal magnet setup ~3 widths apart. Circuit as per picture posted - normal radiant mode SG circuit. (We didn't know about other modes back then). Coil was more than likely a bifilar with 0.56mm trigger and 0.7mm power as that's what I had at the time. No idea how long the coil wires were - most likely 450 turns, I don't have that coil anymore, I gave it to someone who visited my shop. I don't remember what the final values were for the base resistor. I definitely didn't have circuit boards back then, everything was point to point soldered.

The point here is that what JB specified for the bike wheel kit was what was best for that kit. Rick was giving out different instructions back then and I just followed along as best as I could, but still managed to get a setup that was COP>1 plus the mechanical.

Like Patrick posted about his pendulum setup is that it's all about balance. I guess I just had it right, some experience mixed with a bit of luck. I do remember I had done many, many load tests to get those results. It wasn't like I just did one load test and thought I had it.

What we are offering people with these days will get you in the ball park, as well as front row seats to the game. TeslagenX doesn't just sell the kits to get filthy rich, (which I assure you we are not) we sell them so people can build as close to spec as JB does and to be able to get the results he does. I wish I had kits a few years ago, would've saved me a lot of time, money and blown parts.

John K.

[Dave Wing]

Hi John,

Okay to be more specific are you talking 130' wire length and with the 470 ohm, plus 12 ohm resistor, with eight power windings as per the Official Bedini bike wheel kit you sell or have sold?

Just to be even clearer, so as to not mislead anyone... Have you been able to produce those full 1:1 results with the specific values of Rick's diagram, posted last post?

Thank you,

Dave Wing

[min2oly]

P.S. Teaser alert! I'm working on a testing method where anyone can easily test if they have a COP>1. More to be revealed soon

I really don't like my own medicine - argh

[min2oly]

Hi Romero,
yes, frustration - welcome to the party. So the question i would ask myself is how do we handle that frustration... Are we really frustrated or stumped because there is something we do not understand.... and do we allow that frustration to fester, do we take it out on others, or can we use it as motivation to increase our determination.

Romero looks like he has been at it for just over 2 months if I take him at his word from his first post on this forum. That's pretty awesome (sincerely) to come to a new off the books technology and pour your serious time and life into it, this is no small undertaking.

I want to share one of the builds that helped me understand and provided the best experiments possible for me to learn how to balance this marvelous machine.
I first saw John Bedini share it in DVD #2
go here
KR,
Patrick

@All,
I just wanted to say thank you for the initial question and the answers in this thread. As it was described by many others, all I get is a maximum CoP of 0.6
So with all my tries with different coil gaps, using different sweet spots, using different batteries, tuning the wheel to "endless" free runtime - the whole gain was .1 (coming from a CoP of 0.48 with the first run of my machine).
For me it is a very important thought, that I'm not the only one being totally frustrated.

Ralf

[John_Koorn]

Hi Dave,

Yes, that is what I'm saying - exactly as the picture posted. Built to spec with good flooded lead-acid batteries. C20 rate on primary. C20 rate of discharge on secondary.

COP=1.1 + 23 percent mechanical

John K.

P.S. Teaser alert! I'm working on a testing method where anyone can easily test if they have a COP>1. More to be revealed soon

[Dave Wing]

Yaro, Ralf and Gary,

Thank you for your replies...

Dave Wing

[Dave Wing]

It took me over 2 years of tinkering every day to build a machine that would charge the secondary battery before the primary ran down.

John K.

Hi John,

Just for clarity are you saying you have done the actual one primary to one secondary battery, with the SG (see picture below) in the second mode, which is with the secondary battery across the power coil/ trigger only and no circuit changes, nothing extra... like generator coils on the wheel, standard wire length, or other tricks of the trade?

Thank you,

Dave Wing

[romeo-kilo]

@All,
I just wanted to say thank you for the initial question and the answers in this thread. As it was described by many others, all I get is a maximum CoP of 0.6
So with all my tries with different coil gaps, using different sweet spots, using different batteries, tuning the wheel to "endless" free runtime - the whole gain was .1 (coming from a CoP of 0.48 with the first run of my machine).
For me it is a very important thought, that I'm not the only one being totally frustrated.

Ralf

[Tom C]

@Dave,

you make a good point... batteries with known amp hours is probably the first step in true testing. you can easily fool yourself with a battery that is supposed to be a 10 AH one but only has 3 or 5 AH of capacity.

Tom C

[hobbyrobotik]

Hi Gary,

thanks a lot for posting this results. It is hard to believe my eyes when I look at.
You give a good example of "how it should be"- values not only to me.

GRAET WORK !!!