Would multiple coils bring finally COP from 0.5 to > 1 ?

[Gary Hammond]

Hi Bung-ee,

The 470 ohm base resistors are only correct for 130' lengths of #20 wire, not for #18!!!

I made a 5 filar, all # 18 AWG 155' long coil and didn't get it twisted tight enough. It wouldn't run at one pulse per magnet at 470 ohms. Had to drop down to 220 ohms to get it up to speed. And the trigger winding being the same gage didn't help either. The whole thing ran and charged fairly well (especially in generator mode) but still wouldn't give me 1 to 1 on my old batteries. So the problems I had were wrong length, wrong size wire (too large), same size wire on trigger and power windings (trigger should be 3 sizes smaller), not twisted together tight enough, and old damaged batteries.

Do yourself a favor and get the proper coil from Teslagenx (130' x 7 #20 and 130' x 1 #23) that is properly litzed. That's what I did, and rebuilt the entire machine also using the circuit board with 470 base resistors from Teslagenx. Now I can get over 1 to 1 electrically in generator mode, while also pulling two fans!!

Using #18 wire will probably require a different size spool with a different length and different size base resistors than what's specified for #20 wire. If you want the results John got, you got to build it exactly like John did!! Once you become "skilled in the art" you can figure out on your own how to make it work with other sized wire. (I'm not there yet and I've been fooling around with it for nearly four years now.)

[BobZilla]

NoFear,
Yes indeed you are correct but in my opinion a radiant charged battery is the best so I never want to turn them back unless it is to become a primary. Well conditioned radiant batteries will charge faster and discharge slower than a "normal" one. Generally if the battery is only to be used to run loads, a true storage battery then I keep them radiant. If it is to be a starter that has to go back in a system such as an automobile that has it's own charging system than you should turn them back, or if you wat it to be a primary for your system. Anyway you are right but I am not trying to give a definitive guide here.

I have found that to change one back it is helpful to do a few heavy discharges at a C10 rate the first few times and deeply to like 10.5v .

Tom is exactly right (of course) about how to turn them back AND keep them in top shape. This is what one should do for their primaries. Tom has also been saying for years as he just said again about a solar setup. I don't want to put words in his mouth but guys if you have a solar setup then who cares if your machine is not over the top. I don't think we will run out of sunshine as an off-grid fuel anytime soon will we?

Back to my example because I'm sure someone is saying ok if I have a solar setup what do I need Bedini tech for? Remember the dead short battery example. You cannot charge those with your solar panel either and your batteries will slowly kill themselves over time. Use a Bedini machine and rotate your banks and guess what, you will have clean plates and longer running systems. Not to mention all of the scrap batteries you can salvage.

How the hell did all this 1 to 1 garbage ever get started anyway? It is NOT the point!

As I said yes it can be done, I have in fact seen it. But all it really shows is a builders mastery of the technology. It is the equivalent of a Hot Rod'er doing burn outs in the parking lot for all to marvel., or a billiards player doing a fancy trick shot. Nether has anything to do with winning the race or the game but it is showing off their skill.

[Bung-ee]

Hey Gary,
Your analysis completely matches Tom C.'s regarding the ohms - wire size - wire lenth "self accelerating" equation . Thanks.
You are expressing something very important that is even not expressed in that book , hey Mr Lindemann, please check this.
You want to make the SG a state of the art machine ? Let it be said that no experiment should be allowed as per this !
It is not clear. Beginner like me thinks a 100 is the same as a 130 ft. Obviously, not. Well. Any industrial things needs to be defined to -the minute detail if such detail counts.
Please add this ! It's missing .
I do have the beginner hand book from A&P, got a spool from r-charge.net, was happy enough to find the spot for it to run, on my own, when all the rest was "as specified".
I understand that the favor I should do to myself regarding batteries . Let us say that I have 2 things to do and when they are I'll come back here and share my results.
I have already done so building a solderless SG, I'm thanking god everyday I did never solder anything because I have had to replace and check components several times, and that was quick and easy no pain with a solderless SG.
Let me do this and be back to you.
I thought I would be desulfating faster than the underunity would exhaust my old batteries (!! let's build an equation here !!) , but that is not too-too happening, so , OK, let's try to make the SG industrial results-garanteed and we will all benefit from a easily widepread clean energy, I am sure of that....

[Brodie Gwilliam]

you can always hook 2 18awg in series to give you 4 200ft lengths too, quite easily done and no rewinding of the coil(just use 4 transistors) , try not to use small alligator clips either if you are, i have some 12 gauge flexible wire that i crimped my own clips on the end, they work great for testing

[Bung-ee]

As I said yes it can be done, I have in fact seen it. But all it really shows is a builders mastery of the technology. It is the equivalent of a Hot Rod'er doing burn outs in the parking lot for all to marvel., or a billiards player doing a fancy trick shot. Nether has anything to do with winning the race or the game but it is showing off their skill.

I do agree Bobby. I am not here either, to show anything in a show of OU. I have always been told and watched and read that the overunity would show in the batteries, that means, easily and quickly, with a simple SG setup, even about with 1 strand, all the more with 7. Not speaking of the capacbility to restore dead/sulfated batteries, which is, in the current period of time, a variable of over-unity !!!!!

I am I think like everyone expecting to see this pure-radiant battery bank and nothing else, and am expecting OU there, just in the batteries. I have read this is possible easily and quickly, even without cap dumps, with just a SG, no window motpr, 7 strands .
If that isn't possible - just let me know now - or stay quiet forever for I know this is what Mr Bedini John said himself. I am sure that the monopole motor patent was given free not because it's a fancy thing that only advanced skilled EEs are able to put up after 100's of hours, but something easy that has a great intrisic value.
Again, stop me if I 'm wrong...

[Bung-ee]

you can always hook 2 18awg in series to give you 4 200ft lengths too,

oh Brodie : ) I gotta swap it directly onto a 130 ft (unwinding a 100 ft 18 awg coil = nightmare ). anyone interested let me know

[aln]

bungee you can't turn 100' wires to 130 without splicing, so do as Brodie suggested and simplify it. You will see much higher voltage spikes on the output and can play with virtually the same circuit without spending another penny. Aln

[BobZilla]

I do agree Bobby. I am not here either, to show anything in a show of OU. I have always been told and watched and read that the overunity would show in the batteries, that means, easily and quickly, with a simple SG setup, even about with 1 strand, all the more with 7. Not speaking of the capacbility to restore dead/sulfated batteries, which is, in the current period of time, a variable of over-unity !!!!!

I am I think like everyone expecting to see this pure-radiant battery bank and nothing else, and am expecting OU there, just in the batteries. I have read this is possible easily and quickly, even without cap dumps, with just a SG, no window motpr, 7 strands .
If that isn't possible - just let me know now - or stay quiet forever for I know this is what Mr Bedini John said himself. I am sure that the monopole motor patent was given free not because it's a fancy thing that only advanced skilled EEs are able to put up after 100's of hours, but something easy that has a great intrisic value.
Again, stop me if I 'm wrong...

Quickly and easily, no,,, as I think you have already figured out.

It does show in the batteries, in fact it shows in the WORK of the batteries. Batteries need to be properly conditioned or you will never get the results you seek. People often say batteries are half of the system, to that point i would say more like two thirds. You have a primary, a secondary, and the machine,, any of them performing poorly will ruin your effort.

You seem to think that adding more strands equates to more radiant and an easier go of it. No not at all, it complicates things. Yes you do want multi stranded coils to charge larger and larger batteries but don't think for a minute that adding strands does not change the operation of the machine. At that point all of your components need to be matched and it changes the circuit from a resistance point of view.

The original bi-filer is what started all of this, well Mr. Bedini made other models but I mean for guys like us, the hobbyist the original monopole was a perfect example of the technology. If you can learn to build one THEN you can possibly build a variation with multi-strands but at that point you should understand how it works. These wires are resistors AND capacitors. Have you studied the affects of putting both of those devices in parallel and in series, do you understand how current and voltage will be affected? This is why a single transistor and single power strand is easier to understand. In a multi strand machine you will have to consider phase as well. If your components are not matched and out of phase do you realize that waves can cancel each other out?

Look these forums are great for us to all meet up and swap ideas but the only way you will learn is to study and experiment. Their is a knowledge that will come to you in the process of hand on experience that cannot be given to you with a few obscure words off the internet. Yes I am aware that many people have been at it for a long time and still cannot get the results they want, well as John K said, it is not for everyone. People miss the clues that are right in front of them, their machine is telling them what is wrong but they do not listen, rather they do not know HOW to listen. Nobody can make another understand, understanding comes from within.

Unfortunately we are not sitting in some coffee shop somewhere, or a lab where we can have real conversations and get deep into theory. Internet forums are more like a post card where you throw something up there and someone throws something back, it's not the same as a conversation, sorry but that is just the nature of things.

As I have already said this technology can be very useful EVEN if you cannot master it. Even if the best you can do is 50 percent you can get free fuel from the sun (well panels aren't free) and keep your storage batteries in top shape. So what is the problem? If you keep at it you may learn how to get better efficiency but even if you never do you can do things that most cannot.

Anyway I am not trying to encourage doubters to believe, I really couldn't care less. I benefit from my systems.

[Bung-ee]

Bobzilla is a good shooter.
I have ordered a perfect coil from teslagenx today.
I would be okay not getting into the transistor match stuff, I do not seek perfection.
SO let us keep tuned and I'll post my results in a couple of weeks.
I would have loved to have a picture of 1 7 strands coil VS 2 7 strands coils as for (pure negative, no cap dump) charging efficiency / differentials, ....if that is still in the mind of my Mentors, please express yourself

[hobbyrobotik]

@John_Koorn,

I am a direct and straightforward man. I avoid any euphemisms of truths, and especially people who delude themselves. But I guess people who pursue their goal with a lot of perseverance. My contribution here is that I pass on my experience. I have done nothing else than that. I told no one about waste of time, or that he should go somewhere else. So please, read what I write and not what you interpret into it.

Perhaps YOU DID build it right. Perhaps YOU DID follow the instructions. Perhaps YOU spent night after night (of your lifetime) studying and understanding....
what have you achieved? Are you producing your own energy now with batteries of thousands of dollars you payed?

And if it were so, then be honest and tell us wich arguments can you bring for recommend it to others.

So we want to stick to the truth. If someone says that he wants / needs to independently generate energy. Someone apparently has little time (as bung_ee wrote it), then he deserves a clear statement, that it is said to him: hey, Bedini stuff is not what you are looking for.
This is a conclusion of my experience and we are all here to share experiences (our truths).

This is all what I did. Not more and not less.

I wish everybody who is involved in the FE technology good luck and allways good ideas when needed. The time will
come, when this technology will celebrate a big breakthrough.

@Bung-ee & hobbyrobotik,

So how is it that some people have successfully obtained COP>1.0?

Perhaps YOU did not build it right. Perhaps YOU did not follow the instructions. Perhaps YOU didn't spend night after night studying and understanding how the machine works. Perhaps this technology isn't for YOU. (Hey, I'm crap at embroidery but I don't go on forums telling people it's a waste of time and just go and buy it instead)

Good luck with your experiments and I hope you find what you are looking for.

John K.

[guyzzemf]

Spin time / balance has a direct effect on cop the longer the better. a good time is 8 min or more
3min is low

[Bung-ee]

Hi hobbyrobotik,
Yes I recognize your sincerity and I thank you for that. Let us each express our own truths, which as you stated are all different.
You have brought on me a strong light which has definitely guided me. Thanks to you, I am confident how to involve and spend my life-time into a technology...and when to stop it if that POC running time comes out. Let us not let say that any technology is worth or great , it is coming from people who have had the direct support from their inventors or very competent, engineers, because this, is not the real world.
the real world is made of people trying something out for a limited amount of time and a limited amount of energy. Hobbyists will do more than that, and go farther than that. But I am not a hobbyist, and this technology will never breakthrough if it was to be widespread this way. The day I'll be able to put my hand on a simple, reliable technology to produce some torque or some electricity, I'll put it loud on a website and I'll also do it here. And, believe me, you will be about the first one to know...one who assumes telling his truth deserves being told the truth of others.

And let's always remind that all of this is a big game that will last less than 100 years so we should always make the most fun out of it !
G'd day, gentl'men !!

[John_Koorn]

@John_Koorn,

I am a direct and straightforward man. I avoid any euphemisms of truths, and especially people who delude themselves. But I guess people who pursue their goal with a lot of perseverance. My contribution here is that I pass on my experience. I have done nothing else than that. I told no one about waste of time, or that he should go somewhere else. So please, read what I write and not what you interpret into it.

Perhaps YOU DID build it right. Perhaps YOU DID follow the instructions. Perhaps YOU spent night after night (of your lifetime) studying and understanding....
what have you achieved? Are you producing your own energy now with batteries of thousands of dollars you payed?

And if it were so, then be honest and tell us wich arguments can you bring for recommend it to others.

So we want to stick to the truth. If someone says that he wants / needs to independently generate energy. Someone apparently has little time (as bung_ee wrote it), then he deserves a clear statement, that it is said to him: hey, Bedini stuff is not what you are looking for.
This is a conclusion of my experience and we are all here to share experiences (our truths).

This is all what I did. Not more and not less.

I wish everybody who is involved in the FE technology good luck and allways good ideas when needed. The time will
come, when this technology will celebrate a big breakthrough.

hobbyrobotik, I read what you wrote in post #6 of this thread and I interpreted exactly how it was presented - here it is:
"to be honest, look for good solar panels in the size you need for your purpose. You will not find realy useful free energy systems here in this forum. I am experimenting
since 2 1/2 years with different Bedini circuits and rotors and magnets (about 20 systems) etc. I am far away from a COP 1. Thinking about the money I invested, I could
have a now a complete 1500 Watt Solar System. This is the most helpful information for you I think. This technology here is for experimenters and research.
The only useful component of all the stuff here is the "Cap dump" circuit. It keeps your batteries in best condition."

How can I misinterpret "You will not find realy useful free energy systems here in this forum"? It is fairly obvious by this statement that YOU think this forum is a waste of time if you're looking for a "free energy system".

"Are you producing your own energy now with batteries of thousands of dollars you payed?" - Categorically and absolutely "YES" is the answer to your question! I'm doing it right now.

"The only useful component of all the stuff here is the "Cap dump" circuit. It keeps your batteries in best condition." - Is that so? I expect you have done all of the experiments and that is your conclusion from 2 and 1/2 years of work. So maybe my experiments were incorrect or I did not do them properly?

"And if it were so, then be honest and tell us wich arguments can you bring for recommend it to others." I have been honest, I have shared my experiences and told people what to do and how to do it. Maybe you need to go back and read some of my posts on this forum, or on other forums I have contributed to.

"The time will come, when this technology will celebrate a big breakthrough" - Here is where you are missing it. Guess what? That time came over 100 years ago when Tesla discovered it. You just don't believe it enough to build it and see it for yourself.

John K.

[Bung-ee]

Hi John, I have a question for you strictly SG-speaking.

Would you share your experience here and have a lookk on the below check matrix ?
That would be highly appreciated.
I still do not have, even from having the beginners and intermediate handbooks from Peter and Aaron, a clear view of the performance of the product (I say performance, not capabilities, because those are listed exhaustively I believe - recharge , desulfate, augment capacity, off-torque mechanical power.).

With a standard basic SG (no cap dump), with 7 + 1 strands, built according to the beginner's book, i.e., without transistor matching, would :
- recharge a target battery with negative energy faster than the primary : Yes / No.

- If yes, which would be your rate estimate of doing so in the following 3 examples of target 12 volts , 24 and 48 batteries which are in non sulfated, normal, off-the-store-shelf condition (NOT talking rejuvenation here at all).

12V pri / 12V target :__ within __ hours.
12V pri / 24V target :__ within __ hours.
12V pri / 48V target :__ within __ hours.

(e.g. in the case of 12v/12v a rate of 1:1 within 9 hours would exatly mean: I can recharge the 12v target battery at the exact same rate that I am depleting the first, in 9 hours ).


Thanks a lot for your help.

Bastien

[John_Koorn]

Hi Bastien,

In answer to your first question. Yes, it is entirely possible to re-charge a target battery with negative energy before the primary battery has run down. It could be done without matching transistors, but my experience is that matched transistors will give you approximately another 10 percent.

For the second question, there is no definitive time - every system is different and each battery is different. And I would not recommend anything but a 12v primary AND 12v charge battery.
But that doesn't quite answer your question. If your system is built correctly and you have healthy batteries and you discharge your target battery down to 50% DOD (depth of discharge) you should expect to be able to recharge in around 10 hours.

John K.