Need some advice on SSG first project

[skanndar]

Hi everyone and congrats for this great website

I've been reading quite a lot during the past couple of years and finally I've achived to assemble my own SSG.
At this point I find myself trying to 'tune up' the device and some questions are rising.

Could you please help me with this? I know that the information is probably out there already, in some post... I have probably read it and forgot about it. There is so much info about it that i can't remember it all.

These are my questions:

1. Can I switch the charging battery after charged with the SSG? I mean from back end to front end
I remember reading somewhere this is not possible. Why? If so can you give me an explanation for this?
I am not using the capacitor discharge yet. It is pulsing straight to the battery.
If it is not possible, how should i charge the front battery? with a conventional charger?


2. If I understood the way the device works, then the flywheel is just a timing device for the circuitry to switch on and off the main coil. Is that right?
At the end all we want is the electromagnetic field to collapse, right? Could there be another way to switch off the MC without a mechanical oscillator, flywheel?
Im thinking of some electronic component, solid state component...


3. Can I have more than one charging batteries? 2, 3, 10... is there a limit to the number of batteries on the backend? does it affect to the charging times? will one battery charge faster alone than when there are 5 batteries charging at the time?
If the answer to the first question is YES. Isn't that the easier way to 'demonstrate' COP>1?

I do have more questions but I think this is enough for the first post
Thank you so much for your help! And please forgive my ignorance I am still learning how everything works

Skanndar

[BobZilla]

Hi Scanndar,

I will take a stab at answering your questions.

1. Can I switch the charging battery after charged with the SSG? I mean from back end to front end
No you cannot. You can do this on occasion but if you mean to do it on a regular basis eventually neither will charge up.

I remember reading somewhere this is not possible. Why? If so can you give me an explanation for this?
Not going to step in that one ;-) People around here have very strong opinions so I will leave you to ponder rather than hear an ear full of know it all theoretical babble to oppose whatever I may tell you.

I am not using the capacitor discharge yet. It is pulsing straight to the battery.
If it is not possible, how should i charge the front battery? with a conventional charger?

Yes use a regular charger or solar panels. To elaborate on what you would like to do you can move a back battery to the front if you use a cap dumping system but that is an intermediate level device. You are best off to spend time on mode one, and learn from that before moving on to cap dumping.



2. If I understood the way the device works, then the flywheel is just a timing device for the circuitry to switch on and off the main coil. Is that right?
At the end all we want is the electromagnetic field to collapse, right? Could there be another way to switch off the MC without a mechanical oscillator, flywheel?
Im thinking of some electronic component, solid state component...

Again I am not going to stick my neck out for the chopping, but yes you are correct that that is the basic principal and it can indeed be switched in many ways. Many people build solid state versions including myself.


3. Can I have more than one charging batteries? 2, 3, 10... is there a limit to the number of batteries on the backend? does it affect to the charging times? will one battery charge faster alone than when there are 5 batteries charging at the time?
If the answer to the first question is YES. Isn't that the easier way to 'demonstrate' COP>1?

Yes you can have multiple batteries on the back end. The explanation goes way beyond a little post. Understand that any battery needs some current or it will not charge. We are not using current in this system as the main charging component, we are using high potential difference, however you must have a little current as a sort of carrier. So yes many back end batteries are possible but you must have your current up high enough for whatever size batteries you have there. You do not want too much current either with multiple or a single battery. This is something that you just get a feel for as you experiment but the basic answer to your question is yes you can have multiple charge batteries if you configure your system. There are other more advanced ways to do this as well such as branch output but that goes beyond your basic question.


Hope that helps

[romeo-kilo]

Hi Scanndar,
one explanation about Q1 is: A Radiant Energy charged battery can't be used for running a Radiant Energy machine. Why it is that way, I don't know, but this is the answer that is generic in this forum.

Q3 part 2 (easy way to demonstrate CoP > 1):
I'm working with my machine since November on a daily basis, and so far I didn't get over 0,6. So from my point of view (and when you look through this forum) there is no fast path to > 1.

As the batteries seem to be more than half of the system, it is very important to buy good flooded cells, and they have to be "prepared" by charging with conventional chargers until no more grow in capacity is possible. Then it can be used receiving Radiant Energy.

When you work with the machine, it also helps when you document every little modification that you are doing to it.
Building the machine is just a fraction of the time you need when trying to optimize it and creating reproducible results.

Good luck and a lot of patience!
Ralf

[skanndar]

Thank you for your answer

Romeo, I dont understand when you say:

...it is very important to buy good flooded cells, and they have to be "prepared" by charging with conventional chargers until no more grow in capacity is possible. Then it can be used receiving Radiant Energy.

Ralf

Thank you again
Sk.

[skanndar]

Thank you Bob for your help and fast reply

Where can i find an example of a solid state built? I find that very interesting.

You say I can have multiple batteries on the back end but you don't say if it affects to the time. On the other hand you speak about current, I am using 12v 7ah lead acid batteries.
How much current should I be drawing from the input battery?

Now, the charging battery is getting 350mA is that fine? (I have a potentiometer that allows me to vary this current)
I can't calculate how fast the wheel is turning because I dont have a tachometer. Any idea?

Regards,
Sk

[BobZilla]

There are many examples of SS builds within the forum. I have an old thread in the intermediate section about one I built. I started experimenting with some way out of the norm stuff later on in that thread so don't let that side track you. You will see but I am talking about the work I did with photo-resistors. Don't worry about any of that, the basic build is documented in the beginning of the thread. As I say there are other examples you can look at as well.

You say I can have multiple batteries on the back end but you don't say if it affects to the time. On the other hand you speak about current, I am using 12v 7ah lead acid batteries.
How much current should I be drawing from the input battery?

I suggest you post details about your build if you want better advise. I can see a fuzzy picture that looks like you have 6 transistors? I do not know what size wire you are using either. A basic guidline would be to say that between 200 - 250 ma per transistor for your draw. You can go less or more than that depending on your build and how you run it but that is a ball park figure.

Now the question about if it affects time. Why don't you try it and find out for yourself? I do not mean to sound like a jerk but you have to understand that this is a forum for builders and experimenters. If your not willing to answer a simple question like that for yourself than you will not succeed in this endeavor. I would also tell you that even the answer you come up with or someone else may tell you could be wrong. You will find that tuning is everything with these systems. I told you already but you missed it, what did I say again about what is charging the batteries? What did I warn about with current and how to properly apply it?

I took a reading while I was charging 200AH bank yesterday and I was reading 350ma through the charge side. Ponder that...

[skanndar]

Hi Bob!
Thank you again for your time and advise.

My build is the closest to the beginner book I could do.

26'' wheel
15 magnets 60x30x10mm (3 magnets apart aprox.)
8 wire coil - 7 wires #20 and 1 wire #23 (130 feet long aprox each wire)
7 transistors MJL21194-G
14 1N4007 DIODES
7 NE-NEON LIGHT
7 100 OHM base resistors
1 5watt 1k ohm potentiometer

2 12v 7ah new batteries (lead acid)

I believe these are the most important pieces of the puzzle. Am I missing something? Please let me know if I can give you more info.

Now the question about if it affects time. Why don't you try it and find out for yourself? I do not mean to sound like a jerk but you have to understand that this is a forum for builders and experimenters. If your not willing to answer a simple question like that for yourself than you will not succeed in this endeavor. I would also tell you that even the answer you come up with or someone else may tell you could be wrong. You will find that tuning is everything with these systems. I told you already but you missed it, what did I say again about what is charging the batteries? What did I warn about with current and how to properly apply it?

I took a reading while I was charging 200AH bank yesterday and I was reading 350ma through the charge side. Ponder that...

I do agree! I will try for myself I wouldnt be spending all this time and money otherwise...
Anyhow you need to see that like many I am just starting and I have many lacks of knowledge ...
This is why I am asking because I know that many of you already have the experience and the answer for many troubles I could skip.

My goal right now is to get a device working that will demonstrate COP>1 just like JB suggested. Once I get there I will start researching more advanced stuff to improve this TECH if possible.

I will appreciate your help if you can give it to me. To tell me just do it yourself does not help. I am obviously a builder and experimenter.
To show me how blind I am when you say I missed it, does not help either... I did not understand your tip obviously!

In this specific case I was asking because I have only 2 batteries (1 input - 1 output) and I wanted to know if i need to buy more batteries to do COP>1.
Would it be an 'easier' way to demonstrate COP>1? I was asking about times cause at the moment I cant try it myself with only 2 batteries. But don't you worry, I will...
After reading your previous post several times, and after telling me that I missed it I still dont understand what you mean may be is because of English... I dont know...

Regards,
Sk

[BobZilla]

I do agree! I will try for myself I wouldnt be spending all this time and money otherwise...
Anyhow you need to see that like many I am just starting and I have many lacks of knowledge ...
This is why I am asking because I know that many of you already have the experience and the answer for many troubles I could skip.

You did not say you had any trouble at all, if you did I would have tried to help you. What you asked was theoretical. I also gave you the clear answer that YES you can charge multiple batteries on the back which should be enough for you to say hmm, I should try it then.

I will appreciate your help if you can give it to me. To tell me just do it yourself does not help. I am obviously a builder and experimenter.
To show me how blind I am when you say I missed it, does not help either... I did not understand your tip obviously!

As I said I would help if you asked for help but you didn't. I did answer your basic questions however. I did not just tell you to "do it yourself", I gave you some information that took me a good year to understand on my own and you did not understand me, so I told you to look at what I said and to think about it more because the first time you read it you probably didn't give it a second thought.

With conventional charging you use current to get the job done right. So lets say you have a charger putting out 2 amps to one 12v battery. That is going to charge at a given rate. If you were to add another battery what would happen, the current would get split and the time it takes would double because you are using current. Your charger would still be pushing the same voltage and current as before but now it has to spread that current across two batteries.

Now what did I tell you about what you charge with on these systems? I said potential and not current. So what happens if you hook up another battery, yes the current will split but it is such a minimal amount that it hardly matters, you may need to add another 50ma ( again this depends on the SIZE of the batteries) but the potential is still going to be huge.

There are a lot more things involved than what I have mentioned here but this is a basic overview. I will suggest that you want to always "find out for yourself" though, as harsh as that may sound. Trust your own data. Many times people will post bad info or misunderstood info or you cannot replicate results that others give or others cannot replicate your results, my point is really you must trust yourself and your data over all others.

In the example I gave above you could find probably half of everyone's trouble on these forums that cannot get a 1 to 1 charge. They do not understand about the current vs potential and they are wasting their source in the form of too much current. Also the current steals away potential so it must be tuned properly. The very same machine can do a 1 to 1 or fail miserably depending on if the operator knows how to tune it and understands what it is supposed to do.

Anyway SK I wish you well in your experiment.

[guyzzemf]

one of the most important thing JB said 1 amp for 7 trane /or 142 mil-amp per trane--------120 to 140

[BobZilla]

I agree Guy that that is a reasonable number.

There are many factors that come into play and need to be understood. We cannot just place a number on it for all situations.

What come into play:

The size of the charge battery.

The speed (RPM) of the wheel.

The gap to the core.

The gauge and length of the coil wire, also how many windings.

At the real heart of it and where all of these things matter is all about saturation. We are creating a pump with the collapsing field. To much current and we do not get a full collapse to little and we get a weak field. All of the things I just mentioned will affect the quality of the switching and need to be tuned accordingly.

In my opinion there is no magic number for any of this whether we are talking about current or gap or power windings. You can adjust any part of they system to run it for what you need to accomplish. The monopole is meant to be a learning tool and basic specs are given to help a person understand how it works. Once you do understand you can take the technology in many directions. It is a mechanical triggering device for the coil to harvest dipoles.

[aln]

Also skan,
Watch draw on primary, with your setup you could easily draw too much current and slowly kill the primary. The c20 discharge rate of a 7 ah battery is (7/20) 350 mA. Most people start with 20 ah batteries with that setup. Aln