Help with SG build..thanks

[powerdraw]

thanks

[Tom C]

watch your current draw with headlights, and your cutoff voltage. car batteries are not meant to really be run like a deep cell. that is why they die so fast when you leave a little dome light on overnight. pull enough out to get a voltage drop a bit, then go at it again. I have found just taking a few amps out is all you need.

Tom C

[powerdraw]

thanks..I am monitoring closely and not draining battery below 11.5 volts. Then recharging. Speaking of deep cell battery, I have a marine deep cell that was left outside over two years through Michigan winters and finding I can only get it to charge up to 11.16 volts and then it rests to a low 10.89. Is this battery probably toast? Tried running on wheel through 4 periods of 4 to 6 hours but cant get to charge up better..just wondering if being a deep cell battery, if there's anything I can try to fix it. I cleaned it thoroughly and topped off distilled water in cells but no improvement yet. ??
As always thanks for your input and help! Marty

[Tom C]

11.5 is too low for a car battery, don't go below 12.4 you want 80% depth of discharge. on your deep cell, if you have a hydrometer you need to check each cell after a charge cycle. if they are all the same then you may have luck. if you have 1 cell that is much lower than the rest it may be internally shorted. 4 runs on the SG will not make a difference you need to do 10 or so to see if there is improvement.

Tom C

[powerdraw]

ok..thanks..I noticed when I disharged the lawn mower battery to 11.5 (reading made while under load) it rested back up to 12.23 shortly after taking load away. Then the wheel charged it back up fine . Seems these lawn mower batteries never seem to go above 12.6 volts..were only 12.67 when purchased fully charged...should I be able to tune things to achieve higher volts with this or do I need to consider specific style of battery when expecting charge voltages upwards of 15 and 16 volts I'm hearing about?
I will get the hydrometer to check individual cells as you advise for the deep cell..I have it on a slow 2 amp line charger now and am getting it to climb higher than Ive had it yet..maybe if it holds a higher voltage and cells check out, I can load it and cycle on wheel more times as you suggest. Thanks for your help Tom! Marty

[Tom C]

you should not have any problems getting those batteries above 15 if the ones in the picture are the ones you are referring to. a fuly charged battery RESTING voltage is 12.8 or so. however that is not what you need to charge to. a commercial battery charger will charge a battery to 14.5 that is considered full, an Energenx charger built by John will charge to 15.3

a deep cycle battery needs a bigger spike than a lawn tractor battery you may need to retune.

what is your current draw on your wheel? what is the free spin time with the coil removed? and how many magnets do you have? what is your base resistance? looks like you have a 7 strand machine...

Tom C

[powerdraw]

Hey Tom, I just wanted to share this excerpt from the internet written by a Bedini Wheel Charger user who's been around for some time outlining his procedure for loading and charging batteries. I see a difference in his advice saying to disharge batteries carefully to 11.5. I will go by what you say but if I can only discharge batteries down to 12.5, I won't be able to since these lawn mower (not car batteries) batteries seem to be unable to rest higher than 12.5 when charged. Guess I'll run repeated numerous (up to 10) cycles and hope to raise the resting charged voltage to something I can discharge down to 12.5. Heres the excerpt:
The following excerpt was taken from an article discussing use of Bedini Wheel Charger at the site:

http://www.thediyworld.com/restore-l...-batteries.php

Do not discharge the battery below 11.5 volts so as not to cause any harm to the battery. Recharge the battery and repeat as needed until the battery is fully topped off. A fully charged auto battery will sit between 13.5 volts to 14.5 volts when finished.

My wheel spins freely for several minutes; will get a time for you..but wheel is balanced quite well..resistamce at base transistors is 100ohms in series with variable 1k pot as instructed in intermediate handbook so I can adjust the base resistance to best running setting. I will see what current draws are and let you know. I got a hydrometer today to check deep cells too and will find out exact status of battery. Thanks again for helping.

[Tom C]

Marty,

a starter battery HATES deep discharge, 80 percent depth of discharge is the MAX you want to go. Remember it is the discharged state and then not fully charging that makes sulfation. so dropping to 11.5 then charging to 12.6 is increasing your sulfation. if you are never getting the voltage hi enough you are just increasing the sulfation on the plates. this is why I recommend a short discharge and then back at it, just enough to get the chemical to flip over. use a hydrometer on the battery and record the specific gravity. your headlights ar eprobably pulling way too much current for the C20 rating of that little battery.

every battery is different....

what are you powering your SG with? if you are using another battery, it must be fully charged itself before each run. you may not have enough potential in your primary.

[powerdraw]

thanks..need to get my prime battery in shape as you say for sure. I get what your saying about the careful discharge to "flip"over and accomplish actual desulphation. I always watch the discharge and following your guideline..those headlights are from the lawn tractor designed to run on tractor battery I'm using as prime run battery. I can reduce to just one light or use a different size load as you might suggest..??
Also..I'm a beginner with this electrical thing so before I blow up my multi meter, to measure current I understand to put meter in series with circuit; so on input side do I just put leads in series with wire from input going to circuit? On output side if you could kindly clarify where to hook up meter leads.
Also, are there other DC power supplies suitable to provide a good solid prime power supply? As always I appreciate your coaching and am learning new things thanks to you. off to try my hydrometer
And do you have any easy ideas to make or get a device to measure my wheel rpms? Thanks..

[powerdraw]

and I have 24 magnets as specified in the handbook instructions; I went through 50 brand new transistors and found a couple matching sets following the matching instructions in book and making the matching circuit to match transistors. yes.. it's a 7 strand with 8th trigger wire. 20 for big wires, 23 for trigger as my handbook suggested. Working on getting a fully charged battery for prime and taking lots of readings..about to use hydrometer to check the deep cell and all the others here...too bad my old American Flyer Trains run on AC. The transformer has a 15 volt post as well as a post with a voltage control variable through the lever control. Maybe a Universal Power Supply could work? In some time, I will get the prime battery up to charge and go from there..

[powerdraw]

Tom..things are going much better now! I've been able to elevate my lawn tractor batteries out of the discharge range on the hydrometer into the "good" range (1285-6) per several cycles of loading batteries down to 12.5 (no lower!) and then charging on wheel. Takes some patience but found sweet spot on my adjustment pot that wheel runs smooth, fast and has amazing quietness. I'm still overwhelmely anazed that this wheel can just turn the way it does seemingly forever ..
Does anyone know how Shawmee Baughman is doing these days?

[Tom C]

Glad we could help! the SG is an amazing thing it teaches us about pulsed DC in a way no other device could. no one knows Shawnee's whereabouts, I asked Jean manning about that a few weeks ago when I talked to her at the conference.

after you get your batteries fixed up hopefully you will join us on this journey towards energy independence

Tom C

[powerdraw]

Indeed this learning process has me convinced that nature allows for energy independence and I have a mission in the short rest of my life to inspire folks to discover things for themselves.
Will be back with wheel data and progress tapping a bit of the mechanical energy.

The heart is an example of natures pefect pulse motor in a way...I am sure the key is using pulsed power where advantage can be derived in the in betweem spaces of the pulses..I believe Tesla said he could envision much more being done with pulsed current than with continuous.. my views are sinplistic but part of todays problems are due to the smoke and mirrors put up to deflect away the truth of the matter turning things into over complicated bordering on mystical..

[powerdraw]

Hello Tom! Things are going great with my wheel having been collecting some great data and experimenting with various mechanical loads to put to it. Question: I was wondering if it is possible to use a class 2 transformer that puts out 13.5 VDC at 1000mA to run the wheel? Before I blow anything up, I wanted to ask..??
As always, Thanks so much for all your help!!

[Tom C]

you need to put a smoothing cap in parallel on the output of the transformer if you are going to use a power supply. it still may blow it up but it should capture the spike that will destroy it.

Tom C