Having fun with my first Bedini

[cbroad]

After watching a bazillion youtubes and looking at circuits, I decided to give it a try. I really enjoy learning and since I stumbled onto this Bedini motor thing...I have been having a blast... The problem is I tend to be frugal and like to reuse stuff. I tore up a bunch of old electronics laying around and found resistors, diodes, and transistors I thought would work...I am not an electrician but get some of the concepts. I am a developer of code and this has been quite a challenge...but a fun one.

Tonight, after a ton of trial and error over a period of a month... and learning the hard way that PNP is NOT NPN...lol..the motor took off...I charged 3 of my Ryobi batteries up from one 18 volt...is that even possible??? Still amazed the thing runs so well.

I did notice the neon coming on at times and I would check the charge battery to see if it was still connected...the Ryobi batteries are hard to get a solid connect to...I need to build something perhaps out of an old charger.

My question is centered on these batteries...I see most folks are referencing deep cycle 12 volts...some six volts too. Am I endangering my livelihood with these 18V NiCad and Lithium on the charger? If I blow something up or catch my house on fire...well..then the having so much fun part kinda stops?....seriously tho...are these ok to experiment with?

Appreciate all and any advice...

CB

[James McDonald]

My question is centered on these batteries...I see most folks are referencing deep cycle 12 volts...some six volts too. Am I endangering my livelihood with these 18V NiCad and Lithium on the charger? If I blow something up or catch my house on fire...well..then the having so much fun part kinda stops?....seriously tho...are these ok to experiment with?

Appreciate all and any advice...

CB

Hi CB --

The SG Machine is really meant for rejuvenation of dead lead acid type batteries. The SG Machine can also be
used to pre-condition a new lead acid battery to take on radiant charging. Repeat charging after the rejuvenation or
preconditioning time period can damage the life of the battery. You need to add a capacitor dump circuit to avoid
damage to batteries already rejuvenated or preconditioned.

On the subject of charging NiCad or Lithium batteries with the SG Machine you could cause those types of batteries
to blow up and or cause a fire. Its not recommended to charge these types of batteries with a radiant spike voltage which
could be a couple hundred volts. Due to the SG Machine's having an output voltage equivalent to an AC signal you can add
a full wave bridge rectifier circuit with capacitors to smooth out the AC ripple then add a DC regulator of a size depending
on the voltage of the battery being charged. If your experimenting gets to the point of wanting to build a better operating
SG Machine then take a look at this web site listed below for parts.

http://www.teslagenx.com

Keep up the experimenting but be safe.

-- James

[Farmay]

After watching a bazillion youtubes and looking at circuits, I decided to give it a try. I really enjoy learning and since I stumbled onto this Bedini motor thing...I have been having a blast... The problem is I tend to be frugal and like to reuse stuff. I tore up a bunch of old electronics laying around and found resistors, diodes, and transistors I thought would work...I am not an electrician but get some of the concepts. I am a developer of code and this has been quite a challenge...but a fun one.

Tonight, after a ton of trial and error over a period of a month... and learning the hard way that PNP is NOT NPN...lol..the motor took off...I charged 3 of my Ryobi batteries up from one 18 volt...is that even possible??? Still amazed the thing runs so well.

I did notice the neon coming on at times and I would check the charge battery to see if it was still connected...the Ryobi batteries are hard to get a solid connect to...I need to build something perhaps out of an old charger.

My question is centered on these batteries...I see most folks are referencing deep cycle 12 volts...some six volts too. Am I endangering my livelihood with these 18V NiCad and Lithium on the charger? If I blow something up or catch my house on fire...well..then the having so much fun part kinda stops?....seriously tho...are these ok to experiment with?

Appreciate all and any advice...

CB

Really amazing first post on the board. Keep going on like this.

[cbroad]

Appreciate the information.

James,

Thanks for the warning and the information. I am now experimenting on a sealed 12v lead acid battery that was in my garage door opener. It was supposed to keep the opener functioning in a power outage but was always uncharged due to either the mechanism in the opener or the battery itself...it showed very little voltage and I removed it years ago.

So much to learn and little time during the work week. I moved everything to a breadboard to help understand the circuit and make interchanging simpler. It took some time to correctly re-create what I had done previously using the "Daftman template" in a piece of wood with small brads and solder. Nice way to learn, but not very efficient.

My goal is to go solar. I have a solar hot water unit and am looking to incrementally add electric panels. I estimate 30-35 panels to reach even with the power company. Originally, I planned to grid tie using an automated system as there is plenty of sun here in FL. Everyone (in the solar world here) said batteries were messy and too much maintenance.

I believe a properly built SG could be a game changer by providing the ability to easily supplement and maintain the storage levels. Again, this is all pretty new to me...but extremely interesting.

Thanks for the link as well...for now I like learning by building...when I move to the real phase of implementing this...those will be a part of my build, for sure.

Thanks again.

[BobZilla]

Keep in mind that that battery from the door opener is probably a sealed lead acid and it will dry out quickly if your not careful with it. The issue is that using this tech we generally bring the batteries up to 15+V but the electrolyte starts to gas at about 14.8. Doing this over and over will gas off all the electrolyte. You can use SLA's but it can be tricky, i have some big ones I have used for years.

If you decide to invest any money into the project I would suggest a pair of small garden tractor batteries of the flooded variety so you can keep topping them off. You can also use discarded auto batteries and bring them back to life if you want to give that a try. It is better for a beginner to have some known good batteries though so you know your not fighting a battery problem when tuning the machine and learning how to run it.

NI-CD and others can be charged with these devices but as James said it can be risky. I charge my 9v ni-mh batteries all the time with a single transistor solid state setup i built. Those same batteries have been in daily use for 2 years roughly and work as good now as they ever did. I would not throw them on a bike wheel setup though. Much of this is about scaling your charger to your load. I also charged up many ni-cd cells that I pulled from old drill batteries. Those can take a lot of abuse but the risky ones are the lithium cells, I would not recommend fooling with those.

[cbroad]

Batteries

I was actually looking at a couple of these for around 80 bucks apiece...LiFePO4 Battery: 12V 9Ah...i read on here that they are considered Bedini friendly....you have worked with them as well?

[BobZilla]

For LifePO4 there are two opinions out there. One says they work great and the other that they cannot handle the repeated high voltage pulses very well.

I have two 20AH LifePO4 batteries which I did test some charging on with a mode one setup. They did charge and seemed to like it ok but Tom said that Mr. Bedini himself said that they will not stand up too it. Tom correct me if I am wrong.

So yes you can charge them and it works well BUT over a long duration it is likely to degrade the cells. I charge mine up on a tracker5 3A and a 50 watt solar panel. The batteries themselves are great but very expensive. I charge mine with solar and then use them to run a USB charger for charging all my USB devices. Pretty much all of my stuff, flashlights, phone, bluetooth speaker, electronic cigarettes,, all my small stuff is charged this way.

If I were you I really would just start out with some garden tractor batteries. They are much more forgiving than any other type and you can refill the electrolyte. After you get a feel for tuning you can go with more exotic types of cells.

[Tom C]

that is correct Bob, they don't like the pulse charge. I had one in my hand last time I was there, it was a baby rattle...... its like a straight lithium ion battery in that respect. apparently the pulse blows the plates apart. they like pure DC current. I would rather not experiment with mine. I have run them on the primary side of my SG, but they behaved really funny afterwards. took a couple of cycles on a regular charger before it was happy again.

Tom C

[cbroad]

Potentiometer Troubles

Once again, thx...garden tractor variety it is...will continue to process what I learn...and hopefully not be a drain on the board with too many questions. I am having an issue with pots as they seem to fry on me.

I can hear the coil oscillating as I tune it while the rotor is moving. I use a 1k pot and was swapping out resistors to see how it responded. I tried 10, 100 and 470ohm and was finding the place where less amperage and more charge were evident. Now the rotor only reacts when the pot is rotated all the way to the right with any resistor...I get a little play back to the left but too far causes it to spark and the rotor stops...I suppose it is fried....got another and fried it as well...they work fine but perhaps one of the resistors was too far out of impedance?

It is like wide open or dead now.

I should have studied electronics...it is fascinating.

[BobZilla]

Try putting another resistor before your pot, preferably a heavy duty like 1 or two watt of maybe 100 - 200 Ohm. You do not need to be exact because the pot can adjust for it. You may also want to put a lightbulb in the path too, a small one like for a flashlight. It will do many things but to keep it simple it is going to act as a variable self adjusting resistor. Under normal operation you do not want to see it light up, not what it's there for but if your pushing too hard it will light up and perhaps save your pot and transistors.

[cbroad]

I think my pots are all gone...I am going to get more today and follow your suggestions. I wound another coil using the wire specs suggested....previous wire was smaller gauge. Placing additional resistors prior to the pot didn't change anything and the rotor spun but turning down the pot even a tiny bit would cause it to stop...after a brief flash inside the pot.

Eventually, the only resistor that would work was a 10 ohm...and that burned up in a few seconds...something isn't right.

Can I sub an LED as the light bulb?

[cbroad]

I think my pots are all gone...I am going to get more today and follow your suggestions. I wound another coil using the wire specs suggested....previous wire was smaller gauge. Placing additional resistors prior to the pot didn't change anything and the rotor spun but turning down the pot even a tiny bit would cause it to stop...after a brief flash inside the pot.

Eventually, the only resistor that would work was a 10 ohm...and that burned up in a few seconds...something isn't right.

Can I sub an LED as the light bulb?

Redid the circuit and placed a resistor ahead of the pot as suggested and everything is working as expected...thx again, Bob!

[BobZilla]

Glad you made some progress.

To answer the question about an LED instead of a bulb, no it would not be the same. If you decide to try adding the bulb you want a normal filament bulb. It would be acting as a resistor and a smoother on the output. The juice would flow through it but you are not expecting to see light coming from it, this is not about producing a light. depending on other factors in the circuit you may see the filament start to glow a little but not lighting up. If your circuit is running good then I would not worry about adding it unless you just want to compare results with/without.

Curious about this?
http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/abouthp/his...truments/0002/

[cbroad]

Adding a second coil and was wondering about how to include it from a circuit perspective? It is a little confusing and there is very little info on the adding more coils.
Should it be a trigger and a run coil as the other? I keep hearing people say it is only a generator coil...Use the same SSG circuit or is there a simpler way to configure it and tie them to work in unison?

[BobZilla]

I would suggest that you hold off and just study the machine with one coil for awhile. There are basic lessons to be learned without complicating things.

With that said I also do not want to hold anyone back so I will try to answer your question. You hear people talking about generator coils, those are just what it sounds like. They are just coils placed around the wheel to pickup an inductive charge from the spinning magnets. They do not usually get wired into the circuit at all but rather run off to a capacitor or battery, whatever you want to do with it but this is normal AC generated energy which you could run to a bridge rectifier or a diode to convert to DC.

The other thing is if you want to make a multi-coil circuit. For this you would add slave coils and circuits. These do not have a trigger but otherwise get wired the same as your first coil. Essentially you make a buss for your base, emitter and collector. The collector side gets bussed AFTER your output diode. You do not need a trigger because your original trigger will be activating the base of the slave circuit via the buss. The coil should be positioned so that as a magnet passes over the primary another magnet is passing over the slave at the same relationship to the core. Multi-coil machines can be tricky to tune.