Having fun with my first Bedini

[cbroad]

Excellent...I'll try both options at a later date...as I understand the need to learn the circuit so will continue doing so...I actually had it working with two separate coils and circuits but both had a trigger.
To pick up the inductive charge of a generator coil, are these always single wire or bifilar? I have a full wave rectifier and all my coils are bifilar at present...so I was trying to see how to wire it up but got stuck here...I'm guessing the DC out (+ and - on the bridge rectifier) goes into the capacitor and then gets discharged to some source near the cap voltage ceiling.

It is the input to the BR that confused me. I'll look for some info but there is so much wrong info on the web that has cost me a few transistors and pots....I'll stick with this forum as my source of info.

I have some TIP3055's that must be bad as they get really hot if I add them to the circuit. One will run actually which taught me to be careful regardless...it was painful....but I figured it is working...probably would not have for long....just long enough to burn the crap out of fingers...lol.

[BobZilla]

Yea single strand but what you can do with a bi-filer is simply connect the bottom of the first wire to the top of the second which will double the over all length. With a generator coil you want lots of length. Additionally the wire gauge affects the voltage out put and current. Smaller wire makes higher voltage but less current, fatter wire is more current but less voltage.

Your bridge has 4 legs on it, two ussually in the middle are where you hook the wire. This is AC so the polarity does not matter. The out put from that will be the ones marked Pos and neg. That gets feed to your cap or whatever your going to use it for.

If cap dumping you want to build the voltage in the cap to approximately twice the battery voltage that you want to charge. Ideally you want to charge your "12v" battery to about 15v so you would charge the cap to 30v and then dump it to the battery. You can go a bit less say between 18 to 30v will work. The main thing is you need that potential to work for you. It also depends on the current your passing which will depend on the size of the capacitor. All said it's not that complicated just charg up to about double the battery to be charged.

Your 3055's were probably not bad, they are just not very good for larger systems. get your self some MJL21194 transistors and you will do much better. Get some heat sinks for them too, when you get better at tuning you won't need the heat sinks but until then it may save you from burning them up.

[cbroad]

Thanks...been working so I am slow to respond. Day jobs pay the bills but they sure take out of my fun time. The transistor deal is strange...I'm using a breadboard to swap quickly and some transistors stay cool while others can cook meat. Just cheap I guess...a few of the 2N3055's acted the same. I found 10 MJL21194 's on eBay and they shipped me the PNP MJL21193 's.

I don't suppose they can be substituted easily...MJL21194 's are on the way. Using the 3055, I took my first couple of coils and rewound them onto one coil...careful to insulate where I joined the wires. This generator coil was producing 20 volts but only to my voltmeter. The only question today is how to "dump" a cap to the battery...once it peaks does it dump or do I need additional components/circuits?

I have a bunch of caps but none are 30v.
I have 16, 50, 200 so I'll try to get a 30v.

[Barrie Castle]

It's pretty simple to change the circuit to use PNPs instead of NPNs. You can do it, but then you'd have to change it all back again when your NPNs get in. I know how to do it, but I don't know anyone who has done it & achieved the same or better results in doing so. You can google how to convert NPN transistor circuits to PNP transistor circuits. As far as caps... 50V should do the job.

[James McDonald]

Thanks...been working so I am slow to respond. Day jobs pay the bills but they sure take out of my fun time. The transistor deal is strange...I'm using a breadboard to swap quickly and some transistors stay cool while others can cook meat. Just cheap I guess...a few of the 2N3055's acted the same. I found 10 MJL21194 's on eBay and they shipped me the PNP MJL21193 's.

I don't suppose they can be substituted easily...MJL21194 's are on the way. Using the 3055, I took my first couple of coils and rewound them onto one coil...careful to insulate where I joined the wires. This generator coil was producing 20 volts but only to my voltmeter. The only question today is how to "dump" a cap to the battery...once it peaks does it dump or do I need additional components/circuits?

I have a bunch of caps but none are 30v.
I have 16, 50, 200 so I'll try to get a 30v.

Hi cbroad --

If you change the transistors from NPN to PNP you will need an inverter circuit because the trigger pulses
are positive going spikes. The "P" material in the middle of the "NPN" transistor type when it sees a positive input
the transistor will turn on or conduct electron flow. If you use a "PNP" transistors then you have "N" material in the
middle of the transistor and its looking for a negative going pulse to conduct electron flow or turn on of the transistor.
The SG Machines trigger is positive going pulses coming from the magnet induce pulses into the coil so the trigger
would have to be inverted to make negative going pulses along with the reversal of all the battery hook ups. I have
not tried this but you should follow the John Bedini building method to the letter. As far as making a cap dump circuit
whatever voltage caps you decide to use you need a comparator circuit so that the capacitors are not over charge
past maximum. A good design practice is to choose a capacitor voltage rating so that you have at least 25% more storage
capacity over and above the dump point which means dump once the charge voltage is 75% of the maximum voltage
rating of the capacitor. I myself would use a bit higher then the 50 volt rated capacitor. If you can get 75 volt or 100
volt capacitors it would be a much safer choice. Remember that a capacitor charges to maximum in 5 time constants.
The first time constant is 63.2 percent of the applied voltage and the second time constant is 63.2 percent more which
means if the applied voltage is 24 volts then after the first time constant the capacitor would have charged up to 15.168
volts. After the second time constant passes by the total voltage on the capacitor would be 63.2 percent of the left over
voltage which means 24v - 15.168v = 8.832 volts. Now you do the math 8.832 volts * 0.632 which equals 5.581824 volts.
Add the 5.581824 volts to the 15.168 and the capacitor is now charged up to 20.749824 volts. This process goes on up to
5 time constants and the theory is the capacitor should be charged up to 99.9 percent of the total applied voltage after a
period of 5 time constants. The RC time constant effect will be different on all SG machines and batteries hook ups and many
other variable so choose a capacitor voltage rating with room for error.

-- James

[cbroad]

Thanks for the insight...very helpful.

I reached a point where my knowledge of electrical circuits is done...so it is all learning from here. I was playing with capacitors and using a 200 volt 680mf one, I noticed the following. The voltmeter hooked directly to the current output from the bridge rectifier was 20 volts. I assumed this would charge up the capacitor rather quickly. I hooked up the cap and multimeter and hand spun the rotor to see what would happen before applying juice.

The cap charged but very slow....well at least I saw it wouldn't explode in a few seconds.

I applied some juice and the cap charged but to my surprise, not very fast. Perhaps 15-20 seconds to get to 3.5 volts.
I stopped it, discharged it, and placed an LED in the circuit. The cap charged but never went over 3.25 volts. The LED never lit up unless I removed it and touched the leads to the cap when it hit around 3.5 volts.

I am guessing it has to do with BobZilla's earlier explanation:

"With a generator coil you want lots of length. Additionally the wire gauge affects the voltage out put and current. Smaller wire makes higher voltage but less current, fatter wire is more current but less voltage."

The wire on the generator coil is from earlier projects and is small at 28 and 32 gauge. Am I right thinking that the 20 volts is negated by the low current when charging the capacitor?

Keep in mind this is not the back emf directly from the trigger coil...but the current from a separate generator coil.

[James McDonald]

Thanks for the insight...very helpful.

I reached a point where my knowledge of electrical circuits is done...so it is all learning from here. I was playing with capacitors and using a 200 volt 680mf one, I noticed the following. The voltmeter hooked directly to the current output from the bridge rectifier was 20 volts. I assumed this would charge up the capacitor rather quickly. I hooked up the cap and multimeter and hand spun the rotor to see what would happen before applying juice.

The cap charged but very slow....well at least I saw it wouldn't explode in a few seconds.

I applied some juice and the cap charged but to my surprise, not very fast. Perhaps 15-20 seconds to get to 3.5 volts.
I stopped it, discharged it, and placed an LED in the circuit. The cap charged but never went over 3.25 volts. The LED never lit up unless I removed it and touched the leads to the cap when it hit around 3.5 volts.

I am guessing it has to do with BobZilla's earlier explanation:

"With a generator coil you want lots of length. Additionally the wire gauge affects the voltage out put and current. Smaller wire makes higher voltage but less current, fatter wire is more current but less voltage."

The wire on the generator coil is from earlier projects and is small at 28 and 32 gauge. Am I right thinking that the 20 volts is negated by the low current when charging the capacitor?

Keep in mind this is not the back emf directly from the trigger coil...but the current from a separate generator coil.

Hi cbroad --

BobZilla is correct in his reply to you on making a generator coil with a wire size that is lower in gauge number.
Resistance comes in to play with the higher gauge wire. The higher the gauge of wire the higher the resistance per foot
of wire. The optimum generator coil design is a balance of two factors (Number of Turns and Wire Gauge). Energy output
is voltage times current. To maximize voltage you want as many turns as possible, because every turn cutting through the
magnetic field gives an increment of "electromotive force", a.k.a., EMF, which is akin to voltage. So up to a point you want
fine wire, to pack as many turns into the volume where there is magnetic field. However, making the wire thinner and longer
increases resistance. At some point this will limit the current you can output without either wasting much of the EMF you built
up from ohmic back-voltage, or overheating the generator from ohmic heating. The capacitor you added to the DC side of the
diode block which is hooked to your generator coil lowered the voltage due to a capacitor draws maximum current while the
capacitor is charging up to the applied voltage. Also due to the higher number gauge wire the resistance of that wire will take
up most of the current and release it in the form of heat.

-- James

[cbroad]

Thanks James...I have finally wound a decent trigger coil using the recommended gauges and turns. John Bedini probably just shakes his head by now at reading how the stubborn masses try to reinvent the wheel...I started this journey after discovering a YouTube thread about the typical free energy garbage. I was intrigued and while trying to filter through the fakes wound up in the Bedini world. I didn't understand much because I am a computer guy with zero electronics experience. I remember looking at the curriculum for both Electrical Engineering and Computer Information Systems and deciding by taking the easier CIS road.

I tried what looked like it made sense and didn't get results...sure, after time, I can spin a wheel and create some voltage/current. The basic circuit can be replicated even by someone without experience in electronics. However, as a huge understatement, I now see there is way more to this. I picked up a ton of bad info on the web. Finally stumbled on a clip where the Mr. Bedini says, "Don't change anything, build it like this first and understand it first." BobZilla said it as well.

There are basics in programming and development you cannot bypass or systems will not run correctly, yet people are always trying to improve and reinvent the process which is good. The bad part is they think the basics can be altered or skipped. Funny how things are repeated in any industry. For me, I am going to buy the books and study this. I want to learn circuits and understand the tuning of this motor. Just sold my house and am moving to TX which means I'll be pretty busy for a month or two.

Question for the day is can I multiply the output by connecting generator coils to one another prior to the bridge rectifier?
I am still struggling with the best way to discharge a cap...but only because I don't understand how a 555 works or what the best method is and realize I am going to have to learn how to build a simple comparator circuit. These look a bit complex so maybe buying one is a better option.

[James McDonald]

Thanks James...I have finally wound a decent trigger coil using the recommended gauges and turns. John Bedini probably just shakes his head by now at reading how the stubborn masses try to reinvent the wheel...I started this journey after discovering a YouTube thread about the typical free energy garbage. I was intrigued and while trying to filter through the fakes wound up in the Bedini world. I didn't understand much because I am a computer guy with zero electronics experience. I remember looking at the curriculum for both Electrical Engineering and Computer Information Systems and deciding by taking the easier CIS road.

I tried what looked like it made sense and didn't get results...sure, after time, I can spin a wheel and create some voltage/current. The basic circuit can be replicated even by someone without experience in electronics. However, as a huge understatement, I now see there is way more to this. I picked up a ton of bad info on the web. Finally stumbled on a clip where the Mr. Bedini says, "Don't change anything, build it like this first and understand it first." BobZilla said it as well.

There are basics in programming and development you cannot bypass or systems will not run correctly, yet people are always trying to improve and reinvent the process which is good. The bad part is they think the basics can be altered or skipped. Funny how things are repeated in any industry. For me, I am going to buy the books and study this. I want to learn circuits and understand the tuning of this motor. Just sold my house and am moving to TX which means I'll be pretty busy for a month or two.

Question for the day is can I multiply the output by connecting generator coils to one another prior to the bridge rectifier?
I am still struggling with the best way to discharge a cap...but only because I don't understand how a 555 works or what the best method is and realize I am going to have to learn how to build a simple comparator circuit. These look a bit complex so maybe buying one is a better option.

Hi Cbroad --

The best way to make a generator using the SG Machine is to have a separate wheel tied to the SG wheel.
The second wheel would have a North Pole then a South Pole facing magnet to the coil on the second wheel. Having a
North then South Pole alternating magnet configuration will allow you to make a signal pulse that is a modified AC
voltage. Since the voltage is going both in the positive and negative the total swing of the voltage is double going into
the diode bridge rectifier. This will increase your output DC voltage. The actual voltage will be an RMS voltage so if the
AC voltage swing is 170 volts the DC voltage produced will be 120 volts (AC voltage * 0.707 = DC Voltage). Also the
faster the RPM the more stable your output voltage will be from the generator coil. The SG Machine uses only the North
Poles of magnets because the key here is to induce all positive going pulses to charge or rejuvenate lead acid batteries.

Another way of making a generator out of the SG Machine is to have a second wheel tied to the SG Machine and then
use many smaller coils around the wheel with the same North Pole and South pole configuration. Each coil would hook to
its own diode bridge rectifier and then you would series the DC voltage outputs of each diode bridge rectifier to make the
voltage output you are looking for.

On the subject of using a 555 timer chip rather than a Comparator circuit even though in theory this will work you will
have some problems to contend with when using a 555 timer chip. First problem is adjusting it to match the capacitor dump
size capacitor and voltage you will dump at. While the 555 timer will be using a set time to dump the voltage to the battery
the comparator circuit will be doing the capacitor dump based on a fixed voltage setting (Zener Diode Based). With using
a comparator circuit you can always add more capacitors but if you do that with a 555 timer circuit you will be changing the
RC timer parts every time you add more capacitors. If you are looking into buying a comparator circuit they are also available
from www.TeslaGenX.com.

-- James