Pastor Gordon's First try at Bedini Energizer

[Pastor Gordon]

Hi, this is my first post on this forum... My name is Joshua Gordon, and yes, I'm a pastor... Now that that is out of the way on to the post

I've been posting in another forum for a while, but not getting much response, so I'm moving over here because you guys seem to be on top of responding to peoples posts, giving good, sound instruction, and paying attention to detail to what other people are doing in their builds... Plus John seems to be using this forum regularly and well, its his design

Before someone goes and tells me to buy the books, let me start by saying that I have all 3 of them already, and have read them. I'm not saying that I understand the content of all of them, but I have read them and am familiar with the concepts that are in them...

My first attempt at this build I used neodymium magnets (Just because I had some) But I have since changed it over to ceramic magnets. It is NOT a bicycle wheel, but rather a backside lawn mower pulley. I cleaned the bearings out thoroughly and then lightly lubed them with 3-in-1 oil. It is mounted to a wood frame with stainless steel bolt and washers and nut.

The coil is made from a simple plastic wire spool, using 20 and 24 gauge magnet wire, but I didn't count the "turns" as I rolled, I just used ALL of the wire I ordered, which was only 158 feet... I'm guessing that is why I am not getting very much current or voltage even when I spin it up with 12 volts... The core is made up of many many pieces of simple bailing wire (The kind used for tying re-bar together before pouring concrete). The whole coil itself is about 3 inches long and about 2.5 inches wide. Remember that this wheel is only about an inch wide with round ceramic magnets that just fit into the grove, double stacked, so they come out to the rim of the wheel. The magnets pass over the core of the coil perfectly, they are the same size... the magnets do NOT pass over the complete width of the coil, maybe this is why I'm not getting much power out of it??? PLEASE TELL ME

I have made the mistake now (several times) of running the unit without a charging battery hooked up. It has taken a lot of research for me to find out that is why I keep blowing transistors! I'm using a 2n3055 Transistor, a single 1n4007 and 1n4001 diode along with a 5k linear pot that has a 100 Ohm resistor inline with it. The hookup wire I'm using is a solid core telephone wire (May not be thick enough???) I actually used the design I found on Daftmans website to build the circuit, because of the easy looking layout.

For now, I have the circuit hooked through a breadboard just to make it easier to place everything since my wood is so thick... And I'm using simple PCB mount terminals hook batteries into. I have one of the PCB terminals set for the charge output, and one for the input battery. I also included a jack to plug in a power source (Wall-Wart) It works... mostly... It just isn't producing the power I had hoped for. But as I stated earlier, I think its due to the coil wires not being long enough. If I'm wrong PLEASE TELL ME!!!

I have a little more than 600 feet of 26 and 30 gauge wire on order to build another coil... but after reading I'm afraid that they may be too thin... What do you guys think with a little setup like this? I also have some wire wound 1k pots on order... It seams that the 5k linear pots burn up too easily, plus they don't adjust very well for tuning.

I also want to add a capacitor to the unit... but I cant figure out how to get it to discharge into the battery. I keep overcharging them and they just sit there, holding the charge instead of dumping to the battery. I cant seem to find a simple designed circuit to do this. I've seen Johns design, but its hard for my little brain to wrap around since its made for 7 transistors instead of just 1. Also I still cant figure out how to hook up the analog meters correctly...

Any and ALL help is greatly appreciated!!! Thanks for reading my extra long post! lol... like I said, Im transfering what Ive done from a different forum to this one... And I started it all with one big post!

Here are the pictures of my unit... In the building stage, and the current stage...

[Allen R.]

Hi Pastor Gordon! I'm no expert. Now that I got that out of the way I will make some observations and suggestions. The first thing I would say is the more things you change from what is called for the worse it will perform. What batteries are you charging? A single coil is really for garden tractor size batteries and smaller. I charge bigger ones than that with mine BUT it will be really slow. Don't bother charging those Alcaline AA batts. They WILL leak almost every time (even though they will charge). Charge flooded lead acid type. Yes it will charge lots of different kinds of batteries but it was designed for flooded type. Ditch the small wheel and get a bike wheel of some bigger size. Go to harbor freight and get some magnets the size they call for in the book OR get them from Teslagenx. Teslagenx has exact parts. The wire in your core will retain magnetism and hurt performance. Use welding wire as close to what the book calls for as you can get. You CAN use alot of things BUT it costs you results. Current and voltage meters should only be connected temporarily to the system (regular digital test meters also) they affect performance. Your coils should be long enough since they are over 130ft. (standard). With what you have right now at least you can see that it does charge some and you can play with the resistance. The small wheels just don't work good in my opinion. The trouble of changing to a bike wheel with the bigger ceramics will be worth the effort. Have fun with it. You will build a bunch more of them as you learn and want to change to a more standard build. Have fun with it , that is the main thing. You can get serious later. Many 2n3055 transistors died to bring you this information...

al

[Allen R.]

It is a picture from a few years ago. Two things running here. My favorite fan conversion charging AA pack that eventually LEAKED ALL OVER EVERYTHING. They will leak especially after a couple days have passed. They like the power but it pops them. I charged them lightly as possible and they don't get even the slightest bit warm but still they leak. The bike wheel in the back is a single circuit 26" wheel and works pretty well. I eventually brought that car battery back from only topping out a 8 volts(on a standard charger) to sitting (resting) at almost 13 volts and would start a car again.

[James McDonald]

Hi Pastor Gordon --

First thing I would like to say is the Daftman's circuit diagram is not similar to the John Bedini SSG circuit
diagram. The neon bulb is not in the correct place to protect the transistor from an over voltage condition.

http://www.daftman.000a.biz/images/gallery_big1.jpg

http://rpmgt.org/JoinBediniList.htm <-- Use this circuit diagram.


Most of the pots that are cheap and easy to get can only handle 2 watts maximum power input. To
protect the pot you will need to buy a 10 watt 1 ohm resistor to put in series with the pot to keep it from
burning up. Use a 1K pot instead of the 5K pot.

Like Allen said on connecting up a current meter to the SSG circuit is they just degrade the performance
of the SSG. The voltage meters are okay because they only parallel the batteries but the current meter
you should disconnect till you get the SSG working correctly.

I believe in the SSG book tells you to "Never" run the SSG without a load or a charge battery.
Make sure you first connect the load or charge battery negative terminal to the positive terminal of the
primary battery. Then hook up the load or charge battery negative first to the SSG circuit. Next hook the
load or charge battery positive terminal to the SSG circuit. Last hook up the primary or run battery negative
terminal to the SSG circuit. Then give the wheel a spin to start.

The core in your coil even though it may work it will cause drag on the wheel due to "eddy"
currents being produced in your core. The core in the SSG is R60 welding rods which have a percentage
of copper in them.

You really should use two lead acid type batteries to get the SSG circuit up and running. Wall Wort
power supplies that plug to the grid may cause a ground loop problem in the circuit thus causing things
to burn up.

Lets worry about getting the SSG circuit working properly before you start thinking about adding a
capacitor dump circuit to you SSG circuit. If your having trouble thinking about adding more transistor circuits
to your SSG setup. Just think of it this way its like 7 separate circuits like the one you just made all connected
to a common power source.

Lastly if you want to build an SG Machine the TeslaGenX people have most all the parts you would
need to order to build the SG machine. Their web site is listed below.

http://www.teslagenx.com


Have fun learning electronics and building your SSG machine.

-- James

[Pastor Gordon]

Hi Pastor Gordon! I'm no expert. Now that I got that out of the way I will make some observations and suggestions. The first thing I would say is the more things you change from what is called for the worse it will perform. What batteries are you charging? A single coil is really for garden tractor size batteries and smaller. I charge bigger ones than that with mine BUT it will be really slow. Don't bother charging those Alcaline AA batts. They WILL leak almost every time (even though they will charge). Charge flooded lead acid type. Yes it will charge lots of different kinds of batteries but it was designed for flooded type. Ditch the small wheel and get a bike wheel of some bigger size. Go to harbor freight and get some magnets the size they call for in the book OR get them from Teslagenx. Teslagenx has exact parts. The wire in your core will retain magnetism and hurt performance. Use welding wire as close to what the book calls for as you can get. You CAN use alot of things BUT it costs you results. Current and voltage meters should only be connected temporarily to the system (regular digital test meters also) they affect performance. Your coils should be long enough since they are over 130ft. (standard). With what you have right now at least you can see that it does charge some and you can play with the resistance. The small wheels just don't work good in my opinion. The trouble of changing to a bike wheel with the bigger ceramics will be worth the effort. Have fun with it. You will build a bunch more of them as you learn and want to change to a more standard build. Have fun with it , that is the main thing. You can get serious later. Many 2n3055 transistors died to bring you this information...

al

Thank you for the input... The batteries I've been using are simple AA NiMh batteries. Using 4 of them for primary, and 4 more for secondary, although the specs say 1.2v each, when they are fully charged and connected they produce a little more than 5 volts (per bank).

At the moment, space is an issue... As you can see in my pictures, I'm working in my bedroom... which my wife really doesn't like but puts up with for the moment. Under our current living conditions I really don't have the space to build anything on the scale of a bicycle wheel, although I DO want to make one. For now, all I can do is small experiments and try to make the best of it.

Do you think just changing out the core material and going with larger ceramic magnets would make a big difference with my current setup?

[Pastor Gordon]

Hi Pastor Gordon --

First thing I would like to say is the Daftman's circuit diagram is not similar to the John Bedini SSG circuit
diagram. The neon bulb is not in the correct place to protect the transistor from an over voltage condition.

http://www.daftman.000a.biz/images/gallery_big1.jpg

http://rpmgt.org/JoinBediniList.htm <-- Use this circuit diagram.


Most of the pots that are cheap and easy to get can only handle 2 watts maximum power input. To
protect the pot you will need to buy a 10 watt 1 ohm resistor to put in series with the pot to keep it from
burning up. Use a 1K pot instead of the 5K pot.

Like Allen said on connecting up a current meter to the SSG circuit is they just degrade the performance
of the SSG. The voltage meters are okay because they only parallel the batteries but the current meter
you should disconnect till you get the SSG working correctly.

I believe in the SSG book tells you to "Never" run the SSG without a load or a charge battery.
Make sure you first connect the load or charge battery negative terminal to the positive terminal of the
primary battery. Then hook up the load or charge battery negative first to the SSG circuit. Next hook the
load or charge battery positive terminal to the SSG circuit. Last hook up the primary or run battery negative
terminal to the SSG circuit. Then give the wheel a spin to start.

The core in your coil even though it may work it will cause drag on the wheel due to "eddy"
currents being produced in your core. The core in the SSG is R60 welding rods which have a percentage
of copper in them.

You really should use two lead acid type batteries to get the SSG circuit up and running. Wall Wort
power supplies that plug to the grid may cause a ground loop problem in the circuit thus causing things
to burn up.

Lets worry about getting the SSG circuit working properly before you start thinking about adding a
capacitor dump circuit to you SSG circuit. If your having trouble thinking about adding more transistor circuits
to your SSG setup. Just think of it this way its like 7 separate circuits like the one you just made all connected
to a common power source.

Lastly if you want to build an SG Machine the TeslaGenX people have most all the parts you would
need to order to build the SG machine. Their web site is listed below.

http://www.teslagenx.com


Have fun learning electronics and building your SSG machine.

-- James

Thank you James, Looks like I will be buying some welding rods pretty soon. I will also be remaking the circuit according to the diagram you linked too instead of Daftmans circuit... I'm also looking into getting some small, lead acid batteries such as THIS. Living on a fixed income means I have to plan my hobbies carefully, month to month. Plus, these batteries are small enough to fit with my current setup (Also keeping my wife at bay lol) I put in the power supply connection just for testing, but I have already learned that it burns them up pretty quick lol. I'm going to be removing that power jack!!!

Should my magnets be long enough to pass over the entire width of the coil? or is just being the same size as the core large enough?
My wire came in today... 600 feet of 26 gauge wire and 780 feet of 30 gauge wire... Is this wire too small for another coil? After reading some on this site I'm beginning to wonder... I hope I didn't waist my money on it.

I really appreciate the input guys... you BOTH have already helped me more in 1 day than a week of posting in the other forum I was in! THANK YOU!!!

[Branch Gordon]

Heya Pastor and welcome. Just checked out the link to the batteries you are planning on purchasing. I wouldn't recommend buying those.

Standard flooded lead acid is what you want, and at least a lawn/tractor battery in capacity. You want to be able to pop the tops off and check the electrolyte levels. It's also hard to do effective COP testing on such a small battery.

Avoid any AGM type batteries for starting out.

These would be great to start with if you can afford: http://www.atbatt.com/trojan-scs150-...ing-series.asp

Thank you James, Looks like I will be buying some welding rods pretty soon. I will also be remaking the circuit according to the diagram you linked too instead of Daftmans circuit... I'm also looking into getting some small, lead acid batteries such as THIS. Living on a fixed income means I have to plan my hobbies carefully, month to month. Plus, these batteries are small enough to fit with my current setup (Also keeping my wife at bay lol) I put in the power supply connection just for testing, but I have already learned that it burns them up pretty quick lol. I'm going to be removing that power jack!!!

Should my magnets be long enough to pass over the entire width of the coil? or is just being the same size as the core large enough?
My wire came in today... 600 feet of 26 gauge wire and 780 feet of 30 gauge wire... Is this wire too small for another coil? After reading some on this site I'm beginning to wonder... I hope I didn't waist my money on it.

I really appreciate the input guys... you BOTH have already helped me more in 1 day than a week of posting in the other forum I was in! THANK YOU!!!

[Pastor Gordon]

Heya Pastor and welcome. Just checked out the link to the batteries you are planning on purchasing. I wouldn't recommend buying those.

Standard flooded lead acid is what you want, and at least a lawn/tractor battery in capacity. You want to be able to pop the tops off and check the electrolyte levels. It's also hard to do effective COP testing on such a small battery.

Avoid any AGM type batteries for starting out.

These would be great to start with if you can afford: http://www.atbatt.com/trojan-scs150-...ing-series.asp

oh wow, I could never get that battery, let alone 2 of them lol. Ill be on the lookout for some other type that is not sealed... I do have access to lawn mower batteries, I was hoping to use something a bit smaller though under my current circumstances... But, Ill do what I gotta do... Maybe a motorcycle battery??? They are quite a bit smaller than a tractor battery... What do you think?

Thanks for your input...

[Branch Gordon]

I started off with motorcycle batteries. They are fine for getting the machine running and learning the basics. As long as you can open them up.

oh wow, I could never get that battery, let alone 2 of them lol. Ill be on the lookout for some other type that is not sealed... I do have access to lawn mower batteries, I was hoping to use something a bit smaller though under my current circumstances... But, Ill do what I gotta do... Maybe a motorcycle battery??? They are quite a bit smaller than a tractor battery... What do you think?

Thanks for your input...

[guyzzemf]

Pastor Gordon
something like this will serve you will as you will put 100 of hr. on the ssg .spintime [how long wheel will spin by hand /no coil drag]
spintime directly effects COP the rim has roller bearings 4 me a must
guy

http://www.amazon.com/Wheel-Master-F.../dp/B000AO5FEC
i bought 1 good rim have it still 7=8 yr

[Pastor Gordon]

I started off with motorcycle batteries. They are fine for getting the machine running and learning the basics. As long as you can open them up.

So something like THIS would work out ok for my setup?

[Pastor Gordon]

Pastor Gordon
something like this will serve you will as you will put 100 of hr. on the ssg .spintime [how long wheel will spin by hand /no coil drag]
spintime directly effects COP the rim has roller bearings 4 me a must[ATTACH=CONFIG]4734[/ATTACH]
guy

http://www.amazon.com/Wheel-Master-F.../dp/B000AO5FEC
i bought 1 good rim have it still 7=8 yr

Yeah... One day I want to do something like that... but for now there's NO WAY my wife would go for a 2 foot tall bicycle wheel standing in our room lol. I WANT to do it... but hey, Happy Wife, Happy Life!

We currently are renting a single room in a family members house... so all we have is this one room... Whenever we are able to get our own place again Ill have more space to work with. But for now, I gotta go small as possible...

[Allen R.]

Hi Pastor Gordon , Your welcome! Those NIMH batteries might be fine to charge. Probably you will need a larger run pack with the circuit you got. 12 volt is really where the circuit is supposed to run but some folks run them lower. I actually run mine at about 22 volts most of the time but at that voltage you can't make any mistakes with connections or using badly sulphated batteries on the charge side.

You should change the core material and probably use larger magnets. How much current are you running at? It may be that you are not using enough. You want just enough but not to much. That is vague but every build requires a little different tuning because of the build differences from one to the next. You should be able to push those AA batteries up easily. It may be that your input is to low because of the small input battery size. Does it run much better with the wall wart?

al

[Pastor Gordon]

Hi Pastor Gordon , Your welcome! Those NIMH batteries might be fine to charge. Probably you will need a larger run pack with the circuit you got. 12 volt is really where the circuit is supposed to run but some folks run them lower. I actually run mine at about 22 volts most of the time but at that voltage you can't make any mistakes with connections or using badly sulphated batteries on the charge side.

You should change the core material and probably use larger magnets. How much current are you running at? It may be that you are not using enough. You want just enough but not to much. That is vague but every build requires a little different tuning because of the build differences from one to the next. You should be able to push those AA batteries up easily. It may be that your input is to low because of the small input battery size. Does it run much better with the wall wart?

al

Yeah, I believe I'm going to be buying some welding rods pretty soon... and Ill try using larger magnets... ones that will pass over the entire width of the coil. But to answer your question, When I use the 4 AA batteries for input, and for charge, I'm only getting about 3.5 volts coming out to the charge battery, while a full 5.3 volts is powering the circuit. The charge batteries do fully charge with only a small decrease in input battery voltage, so that part seems to be working just fine... It just seems to me that to charge 4.8v worth of batteries it would require more than 4.8 volts of power to charge them. (which is what started me looking into how to do a cap dump)

But to be honest, I do not know how to measure how much power in mAh (or Amps for that matter) and actual volts are actually being used... I don't know how to hook the meter up correctly. I try different putting my probes on different connections, but m not sure which ones to read from. If I put the meter on it a certain way it even shows that I'm running over 24volts!!! but I know that's not possible...

yes, it runs MUCH faster and better from the wall wart, however, after about 10 minutes or so it stops altogether... and in checking the wall wart, it no longer puts out what its supposed to put out... so yeah, its fried! (3 of them now lol)

[Pastor Gordon]

Hey guys... is THIS the kind of welding rods I need???

Or would an R45 like THIS work??

If not, what is the exact AWS rating for the rods that are needed? I cant find R60 anywhere.... Or at least, if this is not it, is there anything at Lowe's or Home Depot that matches the specs???