Pastor Gordon's First try at Bedini Energizer

[Pastor Gordon]

I know you guys are busy, and probably work for a living unlike me... I was hoping to get an answer though. But, since no-one could answer my question about my current transistors falling within the right ranges, today I just ordered 14 x MJL21194G Transistors directly from Mouser.

I hope you guys are all ok... maybe your just absorbing all that info you got at the conference

Im hoping to get this thing put back together before July 20th, cause that's my wife's surgery date, and after that I wont have ANY time for about 2 months to work on anything... She is after all, my most important priority.

-Pastor Gordon

[Gary Hammond]

Hi PG,

......I hope you guys are all ok... maybe your just absorbing all that info you got at the conference

Im hoping to get this thing put back together before July 20th, cause that's my wife's surgery date, and after that I wont have ANY time for about 2 months to work on anything... She is after all, my most important priority.

-Pastor Gordon

My wife and I are still traveling home from the conference taking our time as a mini-vacation. The place we stayed last night lost internet service due to a large fire that shut down internet to half the city. Consequently, this is the first chance I got to respond.

The results you posted looked about right except the forward voltage drop on the transistors looked a little too low. But that might be just an error in the meter calibration. I didn't see any leakage figures. Does your tester check for leakage?

[Pastor Gordon]

Hi PG,



My wife and I are still traveling home from the conference taking our time as a mini-vacation. The place we stayed last night lost internet service due to a large fire that shut down internet to half the city. Consequently, this is the first chance I got to respond.

The results you posted looked about right except the forward voltage drop on the transistors looked a little too low. But that might be just an error in the meter calibration. I didn't see any leakage figures. Does your tester check for leakage?

Thanks for taking time to reply Gary... You guys be safe driving home.

No, it doesn't check for leakage... but what can I expect for a $12 tester right? Is there a way to check using a multi-meter?

Also, as far as panel meters go, would a meter that uses a hall effect sensor disrupt the radiant spikes like a normal shunt panel meter does? I found some small, hall effect meters that use a separate power supply than the circuit being tested... But if they will interfere with the output current I don't want to use them. Im new to hall effect sensor stuff, so Im not sure how they work...

[Gary Hammond]

Hi PG,

............Also, as far as panel meters go, would a meter that uses a hall effect sensor disrupt the radiant spikes like a normal shunt panel meter does? I found some small, hall effect meters that use a separate power supply than the circuit being tested... But if they will interfere with the output current I don't want to use them. Im new to hall effect sensor stuff, so Im not sure how they work...

James McDonald claims the current sensor he developed has no loading effect on the circuit and it is based on a (Fluxgate External Type Current Sensor) rather than a hall device. He showed one to me at the conference and it looks to be a really nice test board. This is also the one Yaro uses and recommended a few pages back in this discussion thread. I would have purchased one from him myself at the conference, but he only had two with him and they were both spoken for.

Rather than trying to "Reinvent the wheel", I intend to get one from him for my own use.

Check out this link. http://www.energyscienceforum.com/sh...ll=1#post22916

[Pastor Gordon]

Hi PG,



James McDonald claims the current sensor he developed has no loading effect on the circuit and it is based on a (Fluxgate External Type Current Sensor) rather than a hall device. He showed one to me at the conference and it looks to be a really nice test board. This is also the one Yaro uses and recommended a few pages back in this discussion thread. I would have purchased one from him myself at the conference, but he only had two with him and they were both spoken for.

Rather than trying to "Reinvent the wheel", I intend to get one from him for my own use.

Check out this link. http://www.energyscienceforum.com/sh...ll=1#post22916

Yeah, I talked with him about that same board... He sent me a picture of it, (And gave me a price) but I don't understand it. It seems to me that if the connections are on the board, they are going through another circuit... which would interfere with the circuit being monitored. To me it makes more sense to use a hall effect ring around the positive wire and measure the magnetic flux coming from the wire. I am new at these sorts of things, so my mind works very simple... lol However, although I may be able to pay for the boards, I cant afford the software... And I am not a programmer by any means. Im needing something simple that either has its own display, or can be connected to a panel display.

Something like THIS is what Im talking about...

Or possibly even something like THIS, although Im not too sure about this one as the current being measured actually goes through the device (another circuit).

ALso still looking to see if there is a way to check for "Leakage" of a transistor using a multi-meter... I have the Radioshack True RMS meter.

-Pastor Gordon

[Gary Hammond]

Hi PG,

...........Something like THIS is what Im talking about...
-Pastor Gordon

This one is too low of a resolution and accurate only to +/- one amp. If you loop the lead 10 times through the device as suggested, you will introduce too much impedance and kill some of the spike. I wouldn't recommend this. It also will average the value which is alright for "ballpark", but not for accurate "area under the curve" measurements.

Or possibly even something like THIS, although I'm not too sure about this one as the current being measured actually goes through the device (another circuit).

James and I both already commented on this one earlier in the thread. Use only with steady DC - such as when discharging a charged battery through a load or charging a battery with a conventional charger.

Also still looking to see if there is a way to check for "Leakage" of a transistor using a multi-meter... I have the Radioshack True RMS meter.

You can hook up a 12 to 200 volt dc power supply in series with the ma current reading of the multi-meter in the forward direction of transistor. Negative supply to the emitter, negative lead of meter to collector, and positive lead of meter to supply positive for the MJL21194 NPN transistor. The base lead must be OPEN for this test. NOTHING CONNECTED TO THE BASE You can use a 12 volt battery for this test, but the transistor shouldn't leak over 100uA clear up to 200 volts dc with the base open. It may leak at 200 volts, but not at 12 volts! The tester I have only checks for leakage at low voltage.

The spec sheet (which I previously linked to) http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/19...657.1448394132 shows a maximum of 100ua current at 200 vdc (emitter to collector) with the base at zero volts. That's .1ma or less on the meter. Anything above this shows leakage and a bad transistor. This measurement is the one shown as Collector Cutoff Current .....(V/CE = 200 Vdc, B=0, I/CEO =100uA dc under the OFF CHARACTERISTICS heading.

[Gary Hammond]

Hi Pastor Gordon,

Still praying your wife's surgery goes well tomorrow.

[Pastor Gordon]

Hi PG,

This one is too low of a resolution and accurate only to +/- one amp. If you loop the lead 10 times through the device as suggested, you will introduce too much impedance and kill some of the spike. I wouldn't recommend this. It also will average the value which is alright for "ballpark", but not for accurate "area under the curve" measurements.

That's what I was thinking too, but Im still learning about this stuff... which is why there's a forum right? lol... I figured it wouldn't register such a low amperage and I didn't want to wind the output wire around it for fear of it messing up the radiant spike... So that one is out.

James and I both already commented on this one earlier in the thread. Use only with steady DC - such as when discharging a charged battery through a load or charging a battery with a conventional charger.

Ok, so this one is out as well... Even if it was running from its own power supply, the circuit would still be going through it thus changing the radiant spike in one way or another. But you can see what I am searching for right? I want some way to measure the output and input current and voltage, with a simple display (Either analog or digital, it doesn't matter) without affecting the machine in any way... Also without the need for any multi-meter, equations, computer or software to take readings. Am I asking for something that is impossible? hmmmmm...........

I've seen Arduino breakout boards that are for current sensing, but Im not familiar with using Arduino stuff, even though I used to be a Radioshack store manager (for 15 years). Plus, I see the same issue with it affecting the radiant spikes as the other meters... Im not sure though. Cause I dont know about them.

You can hook up a 12 to 200 volt dc power supply in series with the ma current reading of the multi-meter in the forward direction of transistor. Negative supply to the emitter, negative lead of meter to collector, and positive lead of meter to supply positive for the MJL21194 NPN transistor. The base lead must be OPEN for this test. NOTHING CONNECTED TO THE BASE You can use a 12 volt battery for this test, but the transistor shouldn't leak over 100uA clear up to 200 volts dc with the base open. It may leak at 200 volts, but not at 12 volts! The tester I have only checks for leakage at low voltage.

This is the most valuable information I've learned lately!!! THANK YOU! As a side project, I'll be putting this together, per your directions, where I can just insert the transistor, hook up the leads and test. Do you think a 9 volt battery would work? Or does it have to be 12 volts or more? Either way I think I can use a simple project board to put it together...

The spec sheet (which I previously linked to) http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/19...657.1448394132 shows a maximum of 100ua current at 200 vdc (emitter to collector) with the base at zero volts. That's .1ma or less on the meter. Anything above this shows leakage and a bad transistor. This measurement is the one shown as Collector Cutoff Current .....(V/CE = 200 Vdc, B=0, I/CEO =100uA dc under the OFF CHARACTERISTICS heading.

I've read the spec sheets several times, understanding it is almost like taking a college course though lol. I get some of it, but a lot of it I don't understand... TIME, EXPERIENCE and PEOPLE (like you) are what I need to eventually understand it all, including the science behind how this whole thing... Im slowly getting it, and I appreciate all your help Gary. Also, my wife and I thank you for your prayers.

I appreciate ALL input from every user out there!

-Pastor Gordon

[Gary Hammond]

Hi PG,

This is the most valuable information I've learned lately!!! THANK YOU! As a side project, I'll be putting this together, per your directions, where I can just insert the transistor, hook up the leads and test. Do you think a 9 volt battery would work? Or does it have to be 12 volts or more? Either way I think I can use a simple project board to put it together...

A nine volt battery should work just fine. The higher the voltage, however, the more likely it is to show the leakage if it's there. You might also want to hook up a momentary contact switch in series with your test circuit as well as a 1K ohm resistor to limit excess current in case of a shorted or very "leaky" transistor. Wouldn't want to burn up a meter or wiring!

[Yaro1776]

Greetings PG,

Sympathize with your SSG problems, however if only one transistor is blown in your circuit just remove the coil wire to the transistor and run as is. I had the same blown transistor issue a couple of years back and ran the SSG without issue for a year before repairing it. Machine works fine on 7, in fact if you are so inclined you can play with removing additional wires and observing how the machine operates.

If I recall correctly Peter Lindemann's demo SSG from the 2014 conference was using seven transistors on his board and the machine ran very well.

All is not lost,
Yaro

[Pastor Gordon]

Greetings PG,

Sympathize with your SSG problems, however if only one transistor is blown in your circuit just remove the coil wire to the transistor and run as is. I had the same blown transistor issue a couple of years back and ran the SSG without issue for a year before repairing it. Machine works fine on 7, in fact if you are so inclined you can play with removing additional wires and observing how the machine operates.

If I recall correctly Peter Lindemann's demo SSG from the 2014 conference was using seven transistors on his board and the machine ran very well.

All is not lost,
Yaro

Thanks, I appreciate that. However, when I realized that my "trusted source" for the transistors was selling the Chinese transistors, I decided to go ahead and buy directly from mouser anyways. He swore to me they were sourced from US sources, but after inspecting them, I realized that those US sources must have been Chinese warehouses located within the US. I have informed him, and he supposedly is checking it out... I realized this after looking at the pictures that John Bedini posted (when he popped some of them open) on original and fake transistors. Look at the leads... The ones from Mouser weren't much more than I was paying, so I ordered 14 of them...

Unfortunately, they wont be here until tomorrow. Starting tomorrow my families life will be changing to a certain degree. I don't know how long it will be before my wife is recovered enough to take care of herself after the surgery Wednesday. She is my priority at the moment. There are a few things I have to get done today, because I know I wont be here for about a week starting tomorrow. And even after coming home, she is going to need me quite a bit. If you read back a few pages you will see whats going on. If you are a praying man, please pray for her.

Thanks for the advice!

-Pastor Gordon

[Pastor Gordon]

Hi PG,

A nine volt battery should work just fine. The higher the voltage, however, the more likely it is to show the leakage if it's there. You might also want to hook up a momentary contact switch in series with your test circuit as well as a 1K ohm resistor to limit excess current in case of a shorted or very "leaky" transistor. Wouldn't want to burn up a meter or wiring!

Good idea! To get a higher voltage I could always just run 2 or 3 - 9 volt batteries together to get either 18 or even 21 volts....

[Pastor Gordon]

Quick update:

I am writing this from my wife's hospital room...

The surgery went well, and she is recovering well. She has been up walking some today, and had a few of the "tubes" removed today, although they may have to put the catheter back in for a while... You can see pictures and updates on my FACEBOOK page, going back to yesterday morning.

I thank you for your prayers Gary, and anyone else who may be praying for her during this time.

I got tracking confirmation that my 14 transistors were delivered yesterday, so soon after we get back home (next week probably) Ill resume working on my energizer as I can.

-Pastor Gordon

[Gary Hammond]

Quick update:

I am writing this from my wife's hospital room...

The surgery went well, and she is recovering well. She has been up walking some today, and had a few of the "tubes" removed today, although they may have to put the catheter back in for a while... You can see pictures and updates on my FACEBOOK page, going back to yesterday morning. ............. -Pastor Gordon

Praise the Lord! That's great news!

[Pastor Gordon]

We are still in the hospital. There was a bit of a setback, but thinkgs seem to be on the right track now. I had to go home at the 1 week mark to refill my medications and get clean clothes. My transistors were waiting for me in the mailbox from Mouser. However, they look like the cheap Chinese transistors that John shows in the book, with the offset pins 1 and 3. Im sure that they must be original and good quality since they came from Mouser, however, I just learned that you cant tell just by looking at them if they are originals or copies.

Ill begin rebuilding my circuit whenever I get the chance. In the meantime, I ask for you guys continued prayers for my wife. Also, if you would like to help out financially, I have set up a gofundme page for just that. Click the following link to see pictures, the story of whats happening, and any updates made. You can also make a donation of ANY size here. Thank you guys for your prayers and support!!! HERE'S THE LINK.

-Pastor Gordon