Coil wire size, COP and tuning

[Tom C]

Forrest,

we (the moderators) also have been led down the primrose path here with the monopole, the kits, and what has happened with Rick F and R charge. for a long time Rick was the Gatekeeper for all info related to the SG the monopole forums and access to John Bedini. also he was the one that passed the "approved" circuits onto the SG groups over on yahoo. only after the last conference did we fully have access to John and His technology. we had a lot of things told to us that were patently untrue, and we supported kits and designs that we thought were directly from JB but they were not!! you can draw the SG circuit, and plug in a ton of variables (transistor, diodes, resistors, etc) not to mention coil wire size and length, and get something that will spin a bike wheel, but may not charge well.

that is the reason for this forum, to have acces to the correct design parameters.

We were under the impression that The SG as posted was Designed by John, and in one sense it was, but the coil parameters were not for the size of battery John expects to be charged with the bike wheel, and the wire size was not approved of by John.

my bike wheel has 18 awg, it charges great!! my 23-26 coil charges too, but not as well. for small 7 ah batteries it does good, but not the best, for anything much larger forget it. you HAVE to size the coil for the battery.

so will the smaller coil work, yes... here is the analogy, you can ride a bike from portland to seattle, drive a car or take a train or a plane. will they all get you there, yes, but not in the same amount of time or comfort. with this in mind realise that hundreds of people have done the testing on monopole 3 with the 23 26 coil and successfully produced cops over 1. that is because the technology does work, but is it the way John designed it? no that coils is not within his design parameters. for the bike wheel.

we have hundreds of people who post things like "I built it just like John designed" then post pictures of a skateboard wheel, and some transformer laminations wrapped with speaker wire for the coil, guess what it charges batteries, but its not like John designed, and it wont give ou hi cop's

so if I was obtuse I am sorry, but if you read the first part of this thread you realise why I posted what I did.

you will not get your money back from Rick for that coil, and we are working on a new document for the SG. John is working on a bike wheel kit for everyone, so lets see what he plans on doing.

we are doing our best to disseminate info as quickly as we can. you are getting it as fast as we are.

Tom C

[Forrest]

Hi Tom, Thanks for the clarification and where all of us stand. I for one now feel much more comfortable with where we are and where we are headed. I think there are quite a few of us who know deep down things just didn't add up prior to this forum. That is obviously changing for the good.

I am not inot asking for anything in return.....only admitting the mistakes and moving on with the correct info. That is the key! Getting reliable info that has been proven time and again. It will take time for everyone to undo what they have learned so far and relearn what is correct. For me this has been one heck of a great learning experience but for others not so great. Failure is a very powerful learnign tool. I only hope to get things straightened out so that they need not walk the path we have travel so far. I love to teach and offer help but i need to learn right from wrong first.....then offer help and suggestions which will stimulate experimentation and creativeness.

Tom we all are waiting patiently. Thanks again.

Bud

[Tom C]

Hi Tom, Thanks for the clarification and where all of us stand. I for one now feel much more comfortable with where we are and where we are headed. I think there are quite a few of us who know deep down things just didn't add up prior to this forum. That is obviously changing for the good.

I am not inot asking for anything in return.....only admitting the mistakes and moving on with the correct info. That is the key! Getting reliable info that has been proven time and again. It will take time for everyone to undo what they have learned so far and relearn what is correct. For me this has been one heck of a great learning experience but for others not so great. Failure is a very powerful learnign tool. I only hope to get things straightened out so that they need not walk the path we have travel so far. I love to teach and offer help but i need to learn right from wrong first.....then offer help and suggestions which will stimulate experimentation and creativeness.

Tom we all are waiting patiently. Thanks again.

Bud

now to end the confusion once and for all, the moderators from the other forum ARE the moderators of this forum. (john K, Eric, myself) John B is the super moderator. Aaron murakami Has graciously given us his time and expertise for this forum as it's administrator, until we can learn all the ropes, which may take years.

we are just getting up to speed on things. John B is working very hard on the monopoles again, so it will be exciting to see what he comes up with.

Tom C

[lost_in_samoa]

John B is working very hard on the monopoles again, so it will be exciting to see what he comes up with. Tom C

This is encouraging. Having been driven out of the networking company that I founded by my "partners". I can clearly understand what is happening to the Bedini SSG community.

I have a goal to build a multi-coil energizer to service my 800ah LAB battery bank. I have hopes that the original Bedini 10 coiler as pictured in EFTV will fit the bill. I am very disappointed that my current investment has been in undersized materials.

I understand that the materials used must match the application. I also know that there are relative sizing guidelines.

I think that a set of design specs for a production sized coil/circuit from the source would be extremely valuable to the group.

Thank you very much for your time.

[Jet-A]

Tom,

Thanks for the update and the candid information. At this point it seems there is no hurry to build anything until John B updates the SSG build info and we can go forward with the correct information.

Thanks again,
Alex

[John_Koorn]

Stop whining and start building!

To All,

For those of you are waiting to be spoon fed, I'm sorry to disappoint you but that won't happen. You guys are going to have to do the hard work and do some thinking for yourselves.

The point is that John has already posted everything you need to know on the internet, on various different forums over the years. Go and look up all his posts on the public forums. I even made it easy for everyone by posting a document of all his posts that he made on the Bedini_SG group. A couple of people acknowledged it, but is anyone building?

The people that will succeed with replicating John Bedini's technology and getting the results that John has are the ones who take the initiative and do the research and figure it out and do the experiments. If you just sit here on this forum and wait for "that magic post" to come along you are fooling yourself. To say "there is no hurry to build anything until John B updates the SSG build info" is ludicrous.

Hundreds of people have built successful replications with the information they have been given. They did not wait until someone gave them the "secret recipe".

The reason why I am so angry is that I've seen exactly the same posts by the same type of people on every internet forum in the last 5 years I have been researching this technology. I'm not going to let that happen on this forum as well. This forum is for people that are serious about wanting to LEARN this technology, not for people to sit there and complain that they were given wrong information and are just going to sit around to be spoon fed.

I figured this stuff out by doing thousands of hours of experiments and making a lot of mistakes along the way. I've probably smoked more parts than most of you have ever bought. But I perservered and stuck with it because I believed it worked, and it does. Yes, I figured out a long time ago that the kits needed some work. Did I complain? No, I spent a lot of time and money in fixing them and testing, testing, testing.

I learnt all about how coils work and what happens when you change the wire size, the number of turns, the number of windings, the core type. I learned how transistors switch and what happens when you change the bias, especially what happens when you push them too hard. I learned a lot about magnets and what they do when you place them in different configurations, what a permanent magnet really is and how to make an electromagnet - what happens when you turn an electromagnet on and off, what the energy really is and where it is coming from.

I did this with the information that had already been shared by people who new better than me. Did John Bedini just sit around and wait for someone to give him the magic beans? No, he spent thousands of hours researching everything he could find BEFORE THE INTERNET ever existed. Inventors don't just wake up in the morning and think "OK, today I'm going to build a free energy device", it comes from years and years of research and trial and error.

So it's time for people to stand up and do something, not just sit on front of a keyboard and wait for someone to post "the secret". It's time for you all to get to work and just build it. Come back and tell me why the magnets in the kits are wrong, or why the wire is the wrong size for your battery or why you should match your components. Don't just be the sheep and follow the rest of the flock, lead the way.

I'll finish with this: "If you want to be in the top 5%, you have to do things that 95% of the people won't do."

Have a good day!


John K.

[Dane]

John K. I applaud your willingness to speak your mind here. I am new to this group and the concept of the Bedini energizer. I am not new to magnets both permanent or electric or building circuits. The best and only real way to learn a new concept is to start at the ground level and then advance up. We should all be thankful that John B. has made his setup public and is willing to help us build and understand for our selves what the technology is.

You cant expect to jump in and have your first build be a super efficient setup. JB and others have worked on this for yrs. Be patient take the tme to learn what is going on so you can benefit from JB's genius and generosity.

I finally have all my parts in will start my build soon. I am starting wth the basics just what is outlined in the group experiment. Reading the boards I have ideas for a 2nd build but that time will come once I understand how the basics work.

[Jet-A]

To All,

To say "there is no hurry to build anything until John B updates the SSG build info" is ludicrous.


John K.

John K,

I was the one who posted what you quoted. Please keep in mind you were a moderator on the previous forum who helped to dish out incorrect build advice. Based on that I think you need to tone down your comments a bit. Many of us bought the SSG kit from Rick believing it was the correct one to use. You even said so in the Yahoo group quoting the .pdf file that was given to every person that joined that group that they should not deviate from the recipe contained within it.

I do not expect to be spoon fed at all. John B has done more research in his lifetime than I believe anyone could possibly imagine. All we are asking is why do we need to do all that research again? I'm happy with a few basic guidelines such as larger wire charges bigger batteries, maybe more turns create a higher voltage, I don't know - just guessing here, just some guidelines are helpful so we know what direction to go in.

My SSG will not charge a battery correctly and I have been experimenting with the same setup for months on and off for the last year and a half. If I can't get a very basic SSG to work correctly, how can I move on from there to doing additional research?
I did follow the advice that was given to me and it has lead to frustration. Some of that advice was given by you in the previous Yahoo forum - I thought you did thousands of hours of research yourself and had it all figured out?

I understand what you are trying to say, but also understand that many of us are frustrated at the misinformation we have received.

I'm not mad at you, I want to get my SSG to work properly and move on to building more advanced models I just feel that your post came at the wrong time.

have a good night,
Alex

[alfinip2000]

I've learn and experiment this technology for 2 years now..and am still working on the basic ssg, i do see the magic on the plan that post on the other forum, yes it work good on my experiment even i used cheap 2n3055 (23 awg,5ah) i dint buy the kit, i also make simple battery loader and advance battery loader just to see the magic on the battery (increase capacity).. everyone doesn't need to be spoon feed, what you do is just, make the plan and PATIENCE to learn the behavior of the machine you've build, currently am build 10 coiler superpole, even i used the same coil like on my bike wheel, the tuning process is different BUT the red line is the same.. so just be patience and try to now your machine better .. just like your own car .. just my 2 cent

[Branch Gordon]

Something else to consider here is that for this technology to get out from it's "underground" status and become available to the masses, there needs to at some point be a "standardized" build with all the correct, necessary documentation in one place. It's fine for all of us hobbyists and engineers to spend hours researching and trying to hunt down all the relevant information through hundreds of internet posts, but that isn't helping Mr. Jones down the street who just wants to be free of utilities.

John K...what you said above is admirable...and everyone is appreciative of your time and guidance. But to expect everyone to go through the same process as you is unnecessary. That's like saying it's possible to make fire by rubbing two sticks together, but then expecting people to spend hours, day, and months trying to figure out how to do it...and hiding pieces of instructions in various trees in the woods to find.

History is meant to be learned from, not repeated. Mistakes are made and documented so others don't make the same ones and spend unnecessary time and money. That's not spoon feeding...it's just common sense.

Here's to the hope that the new build with all the new information works correctly.

[John_Koorn]

Alex,

I did not help to dish out incorrect build advice as you say. I still stand by the .pdf that I wrote and if you use that document you will get the results you expect. That document was written before any of the kits were made available, it specifically says not to use neo magnets. The wire sizes stated in that document will also work for smaller batteries, which were also specified in the instructions.

I have never bought one of Rick's kits, the only one I have is the tiny window motor that I was given for helping out at the 2011 conference. On the Yahoo groups we were trying to support kits that we had never seen or tested, so I do apologize if some of our advice was not totally accurate but we were trying to help out the people who had bought them. I understand that a lot of people are upset that they have now found out that the kits have a lot of problems with them.

What is the problem with your SSG? That is what you are here for, right? Please post some pictures and details of your setup and we can help you.

Branch,

I don't expect everyone to go through the same process I went through. That's why I'm here, to try and help everybody but you also have to do the work and do the testing But it is also frustrating from where I sit when I know the information has been out there for years. I don't agree that the technology is in an underground status. John Bedini has given all the information to the masses that is needed to understand the principles of this technology. There are books and DVDs available also. But yes, you are also correct that there is a lot of information out there that is not right and a lot of YouTube videos of bad setups. Yes, they all run and charge batteries but they are not getting the results people expect because they are not built as the inventor intended them to be, or people's expectations are too high.

All, we are all here because we want the same thing. We all want to help Mr. Jones free himself from utility bills right? So we can sit here in front of our keyboards or we can build and learn together. I'm willing to help anyone who wants to build, so if you build something and it doesn't work post some pictures and some details and I will help you fix it and will I also tell you what it is capable of.

The basics instructions have already been given with the recommended parts. If you bought a kit, we will also try and help.


John K.

[Branch Gordon]

Thanks John. By underground I meant "not mainstream". The info is out there but the technology isn't in use on a large scale...or even semi-large. The concept of "free energy" is about as widely accepted as the concept that the earth wasn't the center of the universe centuries ago.

Nuff said anyway. I'm heading to the bike shop this afternoon to get my new super low friction wheel. Gotta get this thing built so I can have something to mess with all winter.

Alex,

Branch,

I don't expect everyone to go through the same process I went through. That's why I'm here, to try and help everybody but you also have to do the work and do the testing But it is also frustrating from where I sit when I know the information has been out there for years. I don't agree that the technology is in an underground status. John Bedini has given all the information to the masses that is needed to understand the principles of this technology. There are books and DVDs available also. But yes, you are also correct that there is a lot of information out there that is not right and a lot of YouTube videos of bad setups. Yes, they all run and charge batteries but they are not getting the results people expect because they are not built as the inventor intended them to be, or people's expectations are too high.

All, we are all here because we want the same thing. We all want to help Mr. Jones free himself from utility bills right? So we can sit here in front of our keyboards or we can build and learn together. I'm willing to help anyone who wants to build, so if you build something and it doesn't work post some pictures and some details and I will help you fix it and will I also tell you what it is capable of.

The basics instructions have already been given with the recommended parts. If you bought a kit, we will also try and help.


John K.

[John_Bedini]

@ All,
Let's just bring up some points here. I have worked with many different things and yes I was no different then all of you trying to build the monopole, I had many failures in things that I did. It's not the moderators fault about the magnets, it's mine for not watching what was going on with what Rick was doing or selling, but it was not my business to interfere in his and he did tell me to basically mind my own business. In Other Words, do not tell what to do with the energizers, so that ended it for me and some of the others.

I hope I have made all the corrections in what I'm saying to do here. I and the moderators moved the Yahoo groups for the simple fact that one morning you would have got up and the group would have been gone. Rick had made the comment that he was going to take the groups down, so I did something about it. I asked Aaron to help me set up this Forum which he did. I did not want all of your work to just be gone in a flash as Rick has done this before with the groups in the past. This group is for all of you so instead of complaining lets just fix the problems and move on to other things with the machine.

A little history, in 1984 the Motor Generator called Bedini's Free Energy Generator is a offshoot of that Energizer. The energizer is basically a mechanical high voltage generator oscillator. You can find several ways to do this. The first, Tom Bearden demonstrated in the TUV film. The machine is a bike wheel charger using a three coil transformer arrangement that is connected to a bridge rectifier charging a 470Uf 450 Volt snap cap. The important part is the contactor which is contacted once every revolution of the bike wheel in-between the last magnet pulse, so this makes the machine off when this happens.
The effect of the high voltage snap is a "Radiant Current" this charges the secondary battery much different, and the effect on discharge is different. I wanted to make the machine easy to build so I added the diode to the secondary battery. Jim Watson, built a very big machine and did demonstrate it at the Tesla Convention, that machine is no different then what I just told you except he used a mechanical relay to do it and a DC Motor, the Energizer is on the back charging the capacitor. If you combine all of this you have the SG machine self rotating mechanical oscillator. The effect of Radiant current on a storage battery makes it very difficult to charge with the normal current pushing charger and the battery seem like it will never charge, it will heat up. Negative Energy was the term at the time it's known by other names now.

Get an understanding of the machine your building before we all fight with each other here as this is your Forum and I really hate restrictions but I wont take any crap either.

[Tom C]

samoa,

there is no such thing as a production coil, it depends upon your battery bank, and many other variables. build a single multi filar (5 wire 150 feet awg 18) SG unit and see what it can do, then scale it up. match everything.

bud,

I would expect an apology from Rick, but we wont get one, we stuck our necks out for what we thought was JB designed stuff it was not.

Branch,

nothing has ever been hidden, ever. no moderator has ever said a 23 gauge coil would charge a large bank of batteries, ever. even over on the advanced groups on yahoo all the coils were expected to be 18 awg, nothing new. the SG document as stands will charge the reccomended batteries, nothing larger. the monopole master class DVD's show exactly what John expects in terms of charging. the FEG book has the theory, the patents are all public knowledge, the circuits are all public knowledge, the results are all public knowledge.

We are here to help and it will take a long time to clean up this mess, there is info on the net for years going way back to keelynet and Jerry Decker. all of it is specific to a process going on and it is easy to mis apply the info to what you may be doing. then patrick kelly and his pdf. multiple replications on youtube, including the daftman, then there is peswiki and sterling allen, who would not finish his testing, and post the results, john just posted his graph on the groups here. . then the monopole groups, for years, which were run by Rick, and were almost instantly a huge hit. over 3000 replications of the SG on monopole 3 alone. most of them got it working, did not like the effort and left. less than one tenth of all monopole 3 members advanced, and stayed around to help others.

everyone,

No more complaining!!!

Rick did some things I would never do, including selling the p.o.s. tiny window motor that is not a window motor, telling them it would charge large battery banks. there is a difference between raising the voltage a 10th or so and charging fully. so everyone we are all in this together, lets listen to John B. do EXACTLY as he says and watch the magic happen.


I have way more money invested than any of you may ever have in this research, and John has invested his LIFE (literally) into this technology. I have chased more holy grails than you can imagine and have been dissapointed time and time again. this and howard Johnson's (not the hojo motor that is scammed right now) is the ONLY tech that has delivered on its promise of more out than in, not including solar geo and wind. all 3 of those are cop infinity after you pay for the hardware.



Tom C

[Howard Wetsman]

John, John, Tom and others who have been moderating,
I appreciate all the time you've put into this tech and even more I appreciate the time you've put into giving us access to it. I'm in a little bit of a similar position in my work, in that I've managed to do something most of my field think is impossible and telling people how isn't as easy as one would think. Something I've learned from being on the learning side of John's tech and on the teaching side of mine is that things that are obvious to the expert sometimes aren't even experienced as the same language to the beginner. Misunderstandings crop up all the time. I think some of the frustration I'm hearing is people want to do exactly what Tom is saying, follow John Bedini's instructions exactly. But those instructions aren't done yet, and people should relax and let them come. John K, I think that's what the member meant when he said something about waiting for John's instructions. With John B working on how to fix the kits, anyone with a kit might feel pretty arrogant trying to fix his while John's coming up with what will be the definitive fix for the kits.
On a somewhat related topic, not all of us here have the primary research interest of building the best energizer. My own interest is in batteries. I've been keeping the charts of my runs much like John posted elsewhere on this forum, but have not kept the primary data. My interest in getting a working machine is to do studies with it, as opposed to studying the machine to make it better. I've said this on BM2 but I'll say it again, there are those of us who would pay a premium for someone who knows how to build a working system to build one for us. When I offered to pay someone who makes kits he said that kits are just for experimentation and if he sold finished products the MIB would come get him. Maybe. But the offer's still open. Meanwhile I'm working on my SS build with 7 matched circuits.
Thanks again for everyone who has been of help in creating and spreading this tech.
h