New Medium Sized Machine

[BobZilla]

I'm sorry guys that was not called for, I am just flustered because I know it works as I say and that seems to be called into question in front of the world here.

[BobZilla]

F*ck it i'm done.

You people can believe whatever you want, don't trust me or your own eyes

[RS_]

it would help to show us a Schmatic...... and maybe that model does not have a internal fly back diode.........

[BobZilla]

Maybe this could help:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]5603[/ATTACH]

yes but If that were all I was looking at I would say yup right there it is , the flyback diode but the trouble is that is a equivalent diagram showing how they expect it to be hooked up.

Notice that actual diagram shows an external diode must be installed, because it doesn't have one.

It is besides the point because as I said already and again in the video which I don't know if you watched Patrick, the load is not hooked up between the drain/source, nothing is loaded there at all.

[min2oly]

Maybe this could help:

[BobZilla]

Hi RS,
No that is still not how I see it. I have shot a video if you could please take a look if you have the oportuity I think it may clear up what I am saying. If you still don't agree then that is fine but at least we have had the discussion.

I have shot a video for the group at large here that explains not only what RS and I are talking about but the operation of this machine in it's current configuration. I think this may be useful especially for some people out there with less experience. This thing is not exactly like Mr. Bedini prescribes his monopole SSG but it operates very similar. By the way you do not need a fancy frame and all the coils and such that this machine sports to play with this stuff. You can build this very cheaply from salvaged parts.

My only intent here is to share my experiences so that others can benefit from them.

Video Link:
https://1drv.ms/v/s!AmzmftzD-V0mhnicAt_i1gKXAsmL

[RS_]

Hi Bob,

I watched your video. It looks to me, that the SSG output diode is faster than the Free Wheeling Diode inside the SSR, and why the circuit is working for you, and not clamping the Back Spike's to ground.....

[BobZilla]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]5600[/ATTACH]
One rotor ready for slotting.

Looks good. can't wait to see this progress.

[Deuis]

One rotor ready for slotting.

[BobZilla]

Hi All,

Almost All the SSR and MOSFET model's have a built in Free Wheeling Diode across the Source-Drain that is meant to clamp/shunt the Back SPIKE to Ground... The Back SPIKE is what a SG or SSG is collecting to charge Caps or Batteries. This is why SSR's and MOSFET's are NOT recommended for the SG/SSG, but work fine for things like the Cap Pulser.

Also, The MJL's and some other models of transistors JB recommends, have the ability to go into the negative region of operation, where current flows backward inside the device for a few micro sec's when turned on, and while full Positive Voltage is applied to the Coil, before forward current flows. This creates a condition where the outside Heaviside energy flow can inter the circuit, thus making the Back Spike higher, for the same amount of forward current flow that would happen normally... MOSFET's and SSR's cant do this......

There are a hand full of IGBT model's that do not have the Free Wheeling Diode, and back in the day when I ran IGBT model's in various SG/SSG/Bedini Cole Bipolar circuits, they seamed to work OK, but I don't know if they can go negative like the MJL's..... Also, when they die, they burn up in a very Spectacularly Pretty Green Fire..........

Hi RS,
I know that you know what your talking about and I appreciate your insight and respect your knowledge, but I also know what I have been doing for quite some time. Let me explain why what you said does not apply at least to how I do it with SSR.

The diode that I take the spike from ( the one that normally would be coming off the collector on a MJL) is at the junction of the bottom of the coil going into the relay. Pretty much the same as it would be on a normal MJL setup. So because of this the coil collapse and the spike are not going through the relay anyway. When the relay opens you basically have the primary pos fed through the coils with a diode at the end before the switch, the spike jumps out that diode to the charge battery when the switch opens. Hopefully you see what I mean. In other words the switching is after the spike diode on the way to the primary negative. I would shoot a video to explain this but I actually have that machine torn apart at teh moment. I do have this other video that was showing something different but you can see how it is setup.

I am with you on the MJL's going negative for sure, I remember Mr. Bedini talking about that so no dispute there at all. There is really no dispute about anything other than the way I lay out the circuit an internal diode on the SSR would not matter anyway because once it opens I am not using anything on the other side anyway, the coil and the ooutput diode are on the input side. Belive me I am not one of these jokers who does not understand the spike and I am not charging with current and calling it a Bedini circuit, I know how to harvest properly.

Here is that other video just so you can see how it's wired. I'm only talking about the first few min, after that the video was about the a genny coil.
https://1drv.ms/v/s!AmzmftzD-V0mhnTSgd3040LGH3aW

[RS_]

Hi All,

Almost All the SSR and MOSFET model's have a built in Free Wheeling Diode across the Source-Drain that is meant to clamp/shunt the Back SPIKE to Ground... The Back SPIKE is what a SG or SSG is collecting to charge Caps or Batteries. This is why SSR's and MOSFET's are NOT recommended for the SG/SSG, but work fine for things like the Cap Pulser.

Also, The MJL's and some other models of transistors JB recommends, have the ability to go into the negative region of operation, where current flows backward inside the device for a few micro sec's when turned on, and while full Positive Voltage is applied to the Coil, before forward current flows. This creates a condition where the outside Heaviside energy flow can inter the circuit, thus making the Back Spike higher, for the same amount of forward current flow that would happen normally... MOSFET's and SSR's cant do this......

There are a hand full of IGBT model's that do not have the Free Wheeling Diode, and back in the day when I ran IGBT model's in various SG/SSG/Bedini Cole Bipolar circuits, they seamed to work OK, but I don't know if they can go negative like the MJL's..... Also, when they die, they burn up in a very Spectacularly Pretty Green Fire..........

[BobZilla]

I thought Bedini said the SSR's were no good.
Too many problems with leakage or something something.
I'm building a machine from scratch with full mechanical switching.
Just ordered some commutators, bearings and shaft.
Ive got a nice chunk of aluminium in the lathe set for a rotor once my slotters turn up.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]5597[/ATTACH]

You are correct, he did say that and also the same about FET's. I found the SSR to work pretty well but at certain RPM's it did seem like it was not getting a clean OFF. I suspected their was some internal capacitance at the junction that made it a little "fluffy". With that said I got pretty good performance and could easily get a 1 to 1 plus mechanical in common ground mode. Perhaps it is inferior to the MJL's but I certainly would not rule them out. I have also used them in cap dumpers and solid states that I have built and they worked pretty good for me. I use crydom 40A.

I also tried using FET's and my experience with those was also pretty good. I think the FET's worked a tiny bit better than the SSR because I could and did install a 10k pull down resistor across the gate/source. If you do not install that resistor you will get a latching problem with them.

[Deuis]

Lol John, I have that problem too. But I only have Mr drill press and Mr bench grinder

I've been missing your 10 coiler too. We had good times together... I'd love to put that on a 3 battery switch and couple a low drag generator to it

John K.

No worries come and get it.
It needs a new rotor though, the other one was terrible.

[Deuis]

I thought Bedini said the SSR's were no good.
Too many problems with leakage or something something.
I'm building a machine from scratch with full mechanical switching.
Just ordered some commutators, bearings and shaft.
Ive got a nice chunk of aluminium in the lathe set for a rotor once my slotters turn up.

[BobZilla]

Attention:
I have gone back into this thread and created new links to the first few videos when this machine was true to it's intent. The original links had broken so I have replaced them. I think this was some important work and at least the first few vids might be helpful to someone. It is only the first three, I could fix more if anyone really wants to see them but by that time I had moved into SS relay switching.