New Medium Sized Machine

[Yaro1776]

Hello BobZ,

Checked out your latest video with the new mods - dang impressive how smoothly it runs. The twin graphical displays add a very useful dimension to the machine's operational data in real time mode or in historical mode. The twin pop-ups of the running voltages are neat - so how did you get them to be on screen?

Anyway keep up the good work on this multi-coil machine - I'll be certain to watch the progress.

Thanks for your effort and sharing,
Yaro

[BobZilla]

Hi Yaro,
I actually went to the site for windaq and downloaded some extra add on stuff but I think these meters were part of the base software. If you look and don't see it on yours just go download the extra add ons. Some of them turned out to be trials and expired on me but these meters did not.

Anyway to get to the meter go to view/add on/gauge. When it opens up click the little gear icon to get to the settings. I adjusted mine for a range of 10 to 17v. Make sure and also adjust the "main" and "Sub" for however you set your range. This took me a little fiddling with to figure out but basically set the main for how many units you have and the subs are the small ticks between the main. Here is a shot of my settings.



Also on the input I installed a resistor voltage divider made with two 10k Ohm high precision resistors and set the engineering units accordingly. You get to that under edit/engineering unit settings. You need to set all this stuff up for each channel your using.

Thanks for checking out the latest post.

[Yaro1776]

Yes BobZ,

Thanks for the tips on the add-ons - will follow up. Still am impressed with the machine! and look forward to the next iterations.

Yaro

[BobZilla]

Greetings friends,

I hope everyone is doing well with their experiments and staying safe.

Today I want to share something with you that I hope may help you in your experiments. I have a way that I am doing some genny coil shorting that is very simple and nearly doubles the output for what seems like no additional input and does not drag the wheel.

Now let it be said that this is not the optimal way to coil short and I know that. The best way involves totally disconnecting any load accept at the very moment you switch the short which results in practically zero consumption on the ramp up of the wave. That way capitalizes completely on only catching the output at the peak. This is not what I am going to talk about today, the way I want to explain is quite a bit simpler and gives good results.

I have made a video to show this method in action but I will explain what you will see in the video. We have a genny coil hooked up to a FWBR. The output of the bridge is connected to a small 1500uf cap in this demo. We collect the energy from the genny coil to the cap in a totally conventional way first. This is why I say this is not the precision peak only method, it's connected all the time. The genny coil is spaced far enough from the magnets so that it does not drag the wheel all to much from lenz, sure a little but a very acceptable limit. In the example setup this results in about 11.5v collected to the cap in a 30 second window.

Next I show the shorting method. First understand that I have added a coil inline on the deck of the machine which has the primary feed running through it. This results in this coil switching in sync with the main power coils on the machine. Now utilizing that extra coil I place a reed switch in its core to be excited by the coils switching field. The reed is connected across the AC side of the genny coils bridge, effectively shorting the coil. Now because the genny coil is positioned in the same orientation to the wheel as the power coils this results in the proper shorting at the peak, or at least very close to the peak. The setup produces 19.5v in the same 30 second window.

I did not mention it in the video but another thing to think about with this would be that this is also a way to increase your potential on the cap beyond what you would get without it. What I mean is the cap may only charge to 12v without the short and have a hard time going up from there but with the proper timing and the short the potential easily can get to +25v. This is important because we all know dumping from one source to another will not work unless we have a potential between them, preferably double.

So here is a video of this method in action.
https://1drv.ms/v/s!AmzmftzD-V0mhnTSgd3040LGH3aW

[BobZilla]

Bonus video:

I built a solid state charger to take advantage of this method awhile back. I was going to make a full thread about this new SS but you could consider this a preview. Here I am showing the same method of coil shorting as before but in a very high frequency solid state which uses a micro controller for the trigger. Because of the high frequency nature of this setup the output from the bridge is greatly increased. Without the reed I get about 1.6v, with it I get about 74v. This is shown in the video. The pickup coil is wound with the power coil and then overlapping it as well. This results in a finer coupling of the timing/induction because it is all happening on the same spool.


Link:
https://1drv.ms/v/s!AmzmftzD-V0mhnXhNxkExD6W6HSq

[ZPDM]

Bob,

I think I understood that, that is absolutely wild stuff! No-negligible rpm change, no-negliagible amp draw change and good clean fun for all. If I got your two videos that should work off any rotor based pick up coil timed off the power winds, or any bifilar air core pulse trained set-up also. I am going to have to try that, thanks for posting.

[BobZilla]

Bob,

I think I understood that, that is absolutely wild stuff! No-negligible rpm change, no-negliagible amp draw change and good clean fun for all. If I got your two videos that should work off any rotor based pick up coil timed off the power winds, or any bifilar air core pulse trained set-up also. I am going to have to try that, thanks for posting.

Yes you pretty much have it. In my experiments I have to say that the solid state blows the rotor version of this away but there are a few reasons I can think of for that. First is the frequency, I am switching that SS core at around 250 Micro-seconds(not mili, micro). There is no way a physical wheel could ever achieve that kind of switching speed.

Also comparing the two is not apples to apples because of the induction source. The rotor is picking up from physical magnets passing by while the SS is more like a transformer winding on the power coil.

Both work but there are differences is all I am saying. The key to it is simple in both cases, switch the AC side of the bridge with a reed. The physical layout of my frame has 6 slots and its a six magnet wheel so in that arrangement it was easy for me to insert that front coil on the deck to use for timing. The magnet would be passing the genny coil at exactly the same time as the power coils. You can imagine though if the genny coil were not exactly lined up in a slot that would not have timed it correctly but you could off set the reed to make up for that.

Let me tell you a little story. I almost never figured this out because when I first tested the reed on the AC I had only hooked up to a multimeter on the bridge (without a cap) and it looked like the voltage was dropping not rising. It was because the digital meter had such a slow sample rate and perhaps it averages but anyway I almost tried it and said damm good idea that doesn't work. Once I stuck a cap on it I was amazed.

Try it out man and let me know how it works out for you.

[ZPDM]

Yes you pretty much have it. In my experiments I have to say that the solid state blows the rotor version of this away but there are a few reasons I can think of for that. First is the frequency, I am switching that SS core at around 250 Micro-seconds(not mili, micro). There is no way a physical wheel could ever achieve that kind of switching speed.

Also comparing the two is not apples to apples because of the induction source. The rotor is picking up from physical magnets passing by while the SS is more like a transformer winding on the power coil.

Both work but there are differences is all I am saying. The key to it is simple in both cases, switch the AC side of the bridge with a reed. The physical layout of my frame has 6 slots and its a six magnet wheel so in that arrangement it was easy for me to insert that front coil on the deck to use for timing. The magnet would be passing the genny coil at exactly the same time as the power coils. You can imagine though if the genny coil were not exactly lined up in a slot that would not have timed it correctly but you could off set the reed to make up for that.

Let me tell you a little story. I almost never figured this out because when I first tested the reed on the AC I had only hooked up to a multimeter on the bridge (without a cap) and it looked like the voltage was dropping not rising. It was because the digital meter had such a slow sample rate and perhaps it averages but anyway I almost tried it and said damm good idea that doesn't work. Once I stuck a cap on it I was amazed.

Try it out man and let me know how it works out for you.

Bob,

I have two unopened Arduino Uno's and this sounds like just a pin13 thing. I don't know if I have any reeds that aren't burnt out, will need to look, so give me a week or two. Thinking about it theoretically I don't see why it wouldn't work, very exciting. The maximal induction for a secondary will be when fully charged by primary. When primary is cut off the secondary's rate of collapse (ignoring any effect from the primary) will usually be determined by resistance and intrawind Lenz effects. If the secondary is shorted at the time of maximal induction the only factor left is wire resistance. As Maxwelll's displacement current is a rate of change phenomena, well, hell yea.

Don't quote me on minutiae of any of the following but broad stroke here is what I have seen with coils and radiant/displacement current/back emf/ad nauseum. Re the spike, change in inductance off the primary itself I think it may be function of mass. That is to say 100 winds of 10 gauge I don't know 1/4 lb will give the same radiant as 1000 winds of 28 gauge (1/4 lb). However the time the 10 gauge and the 28 gauge take to collapse will be much different. The 1000 wind 28 gauge will have much greater inductance but will collapse much slower both because of the greater resistance in the longer thinner wire and likely more importantly because of the 10 times greater interwind Lenz effects. This is to say if you have similar mass on your primary but thicker wire (and air coil) you could possibly pulse faster than 250uS. The thinner many wind secondary oddly enough seems to ramp up to full induction seemingly instantaneously with the primary (i.e why does the secondary not ramp up really slowly? don't know I'll call it scalar as that is a word that I have no idea what it actually means). When the primary is cut off though each wind collapses as determined by wire resistance and interwind Lenz. So a thinner wire secondary will benefit greatly (radiant spike wise) from a short following only resistance and, possibly, interwire Lenz collapse rate of the thicker primary. In summary, and while I don't doubt your eyes, "there are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio (BobZillaMonster), than are dreamt of in your (or my) philosophy" so I need to replicate. If it works and is that clear I think it is genius.

[BobZilla]

Bob,

I have two unopened Arduino Uno's and this sounds like just a pin13 thing. I don't know if I have any reeds that aren't burnt out, will need to look, so give me a week or two. Thinking about it theoretically I don't see why it wouldn't work, very exciting. The maximal induction for a secondary will be when fully charged by primary. When primary is cut off the secondary's rate of collapse (ignoring any effect from the primary) will usually be determined by resistance and intrawind Lenz effects. If the secondary is shorted at the time of maximal induction the only factor left is wire resistance. As Maxwelll's displacement current is a rate of change phenomena, well, hell yea.

Don't quote me on minutiae of any of the following but broad stroke here is what I have seen with coils and radiant/displacement current/back emf/ad nauseum. Re the spike, change in inductance off the primary itself I think it may be function of mass. That is to say 100 winds of 10 gauge I don't know 1/4 lb will give the same radiant as 1000 winds of 28 gauge (1/4 lb). However the time the 10 gauge and the 28 gauge take to collapse will be much different. The 1000 wind 28 gauge will have much greater inductance but will collapse much slower both because of the greater resistance in the longer thinner wire and likely more importantly because of the 10 times greater interwind Lenz effects. This is to say if you have similar mass on your primary but thicker wire (and air coil) you could possibly pulse faster than 250uS. The thinner many wind secondary oddly enough seems to ramp up to full induction seemingly instantaneously with the primary (i.e why does the secondary not ramp up really slowly? don't know I'll call it scalar as that is a word that I have no idea what it actually means). When the primary is cut off though each wind collapses as determined by wire resistance and interwind Lenz. So a thinner wire secondary will benefit greatly (radiant spike wise) from a short following only resistance and, possibly, interwire Lenz collapse rate of the thicker primary. In summary, and while I don't doubt your eyes, "there are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio (BobZillaMonster), than are dreamt of in your (or my) philosophy" so I need to replicate. If it works and is that clear I think it is genius.

I agree with most of what you said, I bet if we were to talk it over in a coffee house we would have pretty similar experiences and opinions.

That SS I showed is a single transistor setup completely normal SSG except the diode between the B & E is replaced with a 10kOhm resistor. Other than that is is normal, trigger is the aurduino with a simple loop 250 off, 150 on from pin12. pin 13 has that built in resistor which I did not want to use because I wanted to deliver maximum voltage/current to the base of the transistor. You could just as easily use a FET which I have done many times but that one used a BJT.

I have been running that thing today and feeding the output of the bridge to my cap dumper and YES it does produce enough energy quickly enough to be useful. I am charging one battery on the normal mode one output from the power coil AND another one from the bridge to cap dump board for what seems to be the same power draw as without pulling from the bridge. I am running it on 24v but I have adjusted the timing to accommodate 12v and that works also. The 24v works best on this setup though and my solar is about 19v when it's not loaded very much which is how I really like to run it.

You will of course have to find your timing for your coil but I just mention some details about how this one is configured. I am already thinking to scale this thing up but as it is I can charge decent sized batteries. I did a 75AH and a walmart group 27 boat battery. I originally built this board intentionally small so it does far better than I could even have hoped for.

[ZPDM]

Bob,

Sadly I suspect my thought on shorting a secondary coil after the primary has collapsed is BS, so much for theory, I had myself convinced but could have benefited from some coffee talk shop. The idea though that the behaviour of the secondary can be changed with shorting and this can be controlled SS remains interesting. I looked also at shorting the secondary while the primary was on and saw an increase in output and increase in amp draw. I tried putting power to a cap disconnecting cap then when cap discharged through primary shorting the secondary. I was seeing all kinds of things, making me think I may not have set up what I thought I set up. I hope at some point soon to replicate what you saw, which is quite interesting and likely quite useful, but quite honestly, right now I am working like a Hillary, er working very hard on a different project.

Ciao,

Z

[BobZilla]

Bob,

Sadly I suspect my thought on shorting a secondary coil after the primary has collapsed is BS, so much for theory, I had myself convinced but could have benefited from some coffee talk shop. The idea though that the behaviour of the secondary can be changed with shorting and this can be controlled SS remains interesting. I looked also at shorting the secondary while the primary was on and saw an increase in output and increase in amp draw. I tried putting power to a cap disconnecting cap then when cap discharged through primary shorting the secondary. I was seeing all kinds of things, making me think I may not have set up what I thought I set up. I hope at some point soon to replicate what you saw, which is quite interesting and likely quite useful, but quite honestly, right now I am working like a Hillary, er working very hard on a different project.

Ciao,

Z

I know what you mean, I skip from one thing to the next quite often. Well sorry it did not work out for you but the examples I gave are legitimate. I'm sure there are variables that come into play such as the field strength and the current, coil size maybe the reed used and who knows what else. The biggest advantage I see for this so far is that if you are already using a genny and you get low voltage from it then this is a way to force the voltage up without changing anything else. I tried a genny that was made with thicker wire instead of the 30awg and it worked in that way. Because of the thicker wire I could always get more current but the voltage was not high enough, putting the reed to it gets the voltage much higher.

I also noticed that if I removed the cap and basically gave the energy nowhere to go the inside of the reed started glowing like a neon (not orange but blue) which sort of tells me there is some seriously high voltage happening. I did this for a little to long and it welded the reed shut so I don't advise trying it unless you can afford to loose a reed.

Anyway it is a neat little trick

[DMANN]

Hey. I screen shot this a while back. I don't know what web site it came from, but it shows two schematics for a gen coil circuit used to multiply the voltage. It does not seem to be for a solid state design though.

[BobZilla]

Hey. I screen shot this a while back. I don't know what web site it came from, but it shows two schematics for a gen coil circuit used to multiply the voltage. It does not seem to be for a solid state design though. Click image for larger version. Name: IMG_20161016_043156_680.jpg Views: 6 Size: 749.4 KB ID: 5547

HI DMANN,

YES! That is the same thing. It does not matter if it is solid state transformer or a pickup coil as long as you devise a way to get the timing right. You also want to make the switch as quickly as possible which means if you use a reed you are interested in it's (PI) and (AT) characteristics. Even if you just use whatever is on hand you want to make sure that it is oscillating and not just shutting so proximity to the field could be an issue.

Really when you think about this it is the same thing as the larger circuit accept a bridge is used instead of a diode and it's induction rather than the battery as the source. Thanks for sharing your schematic DMANN.

As I said before to me the biggest thing about this is the rising of voltage beyond what you could get without using it. How many of us have wound up a pickup coil and thrown it on our machines only to be disappointed that we get like 10v from it, I know I have done that many times and thought well damm I can't do much with it. Using this method we can push it as high as we want so that it can be dumped across a battery.

[RS_]

Hi all,

Here is my version of a solid state Coil shorting Circuit that I helped Konehead (Doug Konzen) design a few years a go......

Ringing the Ring......!

More info on this circuit, and Ringing the Ring can be found on the EVGray Yahoo group...

And Here:
https://sites.google.com/site/altern...rldenergy/home

[BobZilla]

Hi all,

Here is my version of a solid state Coil shorting Circuit that I helped Konehead design a few years a go......

Ringing the Ring......!

More info on this circuit, and Ringing the Ring can be found on the EVGray Yahoo group...

And Here:
https://sites.google.com/site/altern...rldenergy/home

RS,
DO you have a larger version of that? It is coming through as a thumbnail sized image. Thanks very much for your input.