Conner's Build

[conner85]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HvHaWd55cfo
Here is a link to a quick video so you guys can critique my setup and make suggestions for improvement. It's a bit fuzzy. I can post in high def when I have wifi.

[Yaro1776]

Hiya Conner,

The video is a decent quality and gives a good representation of your build and config. I will note that I normally use the smaller LABs on the Charge side with a larger capacity battery being on the Primary side for the setup and tuning process yielding a quicker take on the particular wheel, gap and trigger resistance values. Anyway, nice neat build!!

At this point in your progress there is no need to obsess with the charge efficiency - the listed useful Ah values of the batteries are not necessarily accurate in the real world. Learn the machine and all will come together as you move forward. An approximate 1 to 2 ratio on the charge efficiency puts you in the ball game.

One quick answer: Using the Charge LAB after multiple cycles for the primary driver is not recommended in Mode 1 - your current config.

Have to cut this short... Another emergency beckons.

Yaro

[conner85]

Here is a bit of testing info. My wheel measures 16.5 inches (diameter) it has 18 magnets. I'm running at 1/32 in. gap between the wheel and the coil. I also ran it at about a 3/8 in gap. At the small gap, almost scraping the coil, the wheel runs best. I can run at extremely low ma input and low rpms all the way up to about 400rpm. Here is the ma input and rpm range for each number of pulses.The first two pics are 6 and 5 pulse per magnet. I didn't record the rpm for these as it was really slow. I should also note that I am using a strobe as a tachometer so these rpms can vary.
This pic is .18 ma input,6 ppm.
This is .24 ma input, 5 ppm.
The next two pics show the low input to high input for the 4 ppm range. I didn't have the camera at the same distance from the coil for each shot but if you look closely you can see that the pulses become wider or the on time of the transistor is longer when you increase the ma input.
.24 ma at 90rpm 4pulse per magnet .
.32 ma at 120rpm 4 ppm if you look closely you can see that at the top end of the 4 pulse range, the last pulse is past the center of the coil and is also slightly skewed and shorter that the first three. I would def think this last pulse is working against the rotation of the wheel. Next is the three pulse range.
.33 ma input at 150 rpm 3 ppm
.47 ma input at 165 rpm here again the last pulse appears shorter and slightly past center core just like the top range of the 4 ppm range.
Two pulse range. .48 ma input at 180 rpm 2ppm
.80 ma input at 225 rpm 2ppm
After .80 ah input the wheel slows down when I decrease the resistance in the pot until it shifts. Then is when it goes into single pulse per magnet and the rpm drastically climbs and the input becomes lower again.
.84 ma input at 300 rpm 1ppm 1.24 ma input at 405 rpm
My next step is to do some testing to see where I get the best rate of charge.
Conner

[D Rhodes]

Hi Conner,
Nice work on the build. Just wondering what magnets are you using? 18 magnets on a 16" wheel seems a bit too many. How is the spacing? 1.5 to 2 magnet widths apart, more or less?
And the transistor matching is a pretty precise thing. I tried many builds without matching anything and the results are not as good.
I built a transistor matching circuit from page 11 of the Intermediate manual, do you have the manual?
Good luck and try to be patient. In my experience we make many many mistakes at first which can be very discouraging.
Dennis

[D Rhodes]

I cannot open those attachments sorry.

I found this on an old instruction pdf I have.

MAGNETS:
Purpose
Affixed to wheel to both (1) transduce motor action to the wheel (2) induce an emf into the coil terminals.
Specifications
Ceramic 5; dimensions: 1" x 2" x 3/8"
Quantity
Start with 16 singles for a 24-inch wheel, later additional magnets can be stacked to the wheel. Get some
extra in case of breakage. You also might consider one or two for a control, to measure Gauss before and
after experimental runs.
Tolerance
Must be ceramic (strontium ferrite). Number of magnets is not essential, though an even number and even
spacing will be necessary if you wish to try and add more coils later.

[conner85]

I'll repost the pics from post #33 here and in the next post. They lol be posted in the correct order according to post 33.

[conner85]

[conner85]

D Rhodes. The magnets are the #8 ceramic that are recommended in the beginners book. I have all three of the SSG handbooks and this is build to specs as close as I could at the moment. For the mag spacing I tried to go by scale of the pic of JB s wheel on the beginner handbook. I did notice though that the magnetic field of one mag came in contact with the next when glueing them on. I did have fewer mags but added because of the scale of the wheel showed I should have more. They are exactly spaced and all the same as far as centerline spacing. If the magnetic fields are overlapping is that creating a problem?

[conner85]

Also on the transistor matching. I bought a lot of fifty transistors and tried to match them like this http://www.cgs.synth.net/modules/sim..._matching.html Is this an accurate enough measurement to match the transistors? On my lot of fifty I had readings from 04-29. I used 8 transistors that had a reading of 19-21.

[D Rhodes]

Hi Connor,
I am no expert, but having too many magnets on the wheel and thus too close together will not give you a clear on off with the transistors. That's why the books stress the gap between magnets should be no less than 1.5 to 2 times the width of the magnet. If they are too close and overlapping too much it will give poor charging results I think.
I put my magnets across the rim not length ways inside the rim. The book calls for 2"x1"x3/8" Check out how far apart the magnets are on the book.

[D Rhodes]

Sorry I cannot answer the question about your transistors being matched properly. I built a circuit like in the book and did it the way it says in there. At first I tried to do it with my multimeter and it did not do it correctly because they have to have the 12volts going through them when tested. Telsagenx sell them beta matched.
I am more concerned that you have too many magnets on your wheel. I have only 12 on my 16.5" wheel. That gives a clear on off as each one passes over the coil's core.


https://youtu.be/RZ4nr6AaQFI

[conner85]

That is a good point. Those magnets look like they are spaced really far. I have 2.42 magnet widths in between each magnet. The magnets are 2 1/8 in apart and measure 1 7/8 x 7/8x 3/8 in. i got these from Rick F. Regardless of all these measurements I know the magnetic fields from each mag is overlapping. I guess I could knock off every other mag and have about 5 1/4 in space.

[D Rhodes]

Then you will only have 8 on your 16" wheel.
I would not hurry to reduce that wheel to 8 magnets though.
2.42 magnet widths should be fine really. In the Beginners book it says JB had 3inches between each magnet. The magnetic field does overlap a bit so as to pull in the next magnet. If it is too far away it will not pull it in at slow speeds. Fun!

[Yaro1776]

Conner,

Nice pics and great data for the spikes! You are running the coil gap very tight and it may be useful to open up the gap incrementally to observe the impact on operation and performance. I use 0.025 inch plastic shim stock cut from old vendor wall calendars and old hotel key cards 0.030 inch to fine tune the gap - works very well with my coil mounting configuration!

For your reference my SSG config uses 22.80 inch OD wheels with 21 magnets (stock Teslagenex part) with a spacing of about 2.5 inch - roughly 3 magnet widths. In the advanced book P. Lindemann used 18 magnets on a similar sized wheel- this is the Demo unit that was operated at the 2014 conference - this is about 3.5 magnet widths or very close to a 3 inch separation.

So, for this size magnet you have the option of 12 to 14 magnets for your wheel to be similar to other builds - not essential, but it may improve the overall performance of your build. The odd or even number of magnets is matter of choice and perhaps a function of your available resources.

Have fun,
Yaro

[conner85]

Hi all. I want to share some results with different magnet configurations. I'm using the same wheel and setup as above posts. 16.5 diameter wheel 18 magnets is the first test. I charged the primary fully on a conventional charger before each run. There could be a variable here if I left it on the charger longer on one charge than another? The charge batt I discharged on a load to 12.10. The starting volts that I list for each run were after a few min rest on each batt. Here are the results.
Test 1
18 #8 ceramic mag.
Run batt start v. 13.08
Charge batt start v. 12.27
Run time 60 min 255 rpm at .95 ma input
End voltage
Run batt 12.57
Charge batt 12.94
Discharge from 12.94 to 12.10 at .58ma was 46 min

Test 2
9 magnets
Start v run batt 13.02
Charge batt 12.25
Run time 60 min 270 rpm .95 ma input
End v run batt 12.47
Charge batt 12.90
Discharge cycle at .58 was 40 min

Test 3
9 magnets double stacked
Run batt starting v 13.04
Charge batt 12.25
Run time 60 min rpm 345 at .95 input
Run batt end v 12.4?
Charge batt 12.80? I put question marks at these because I shut it off befor taking a v reading.
Discharge cycle 12.8-12.10 at .59ma 33 min.
If someone can covert these numbers to watts in and watts out that would be great but from these tests it shows that the 18 single magnets gave the best charge rate of return. I listed how far apart the 18 mags were on the wheel in the above posts.
Also the rpms are somewhat of a guess as I'm using a strobe to gauge the rpms. Let me know what you think! Thanks