Neon lamp reactive to ambient light?

[min2oly]

Neon Glow

EFV - Part 2

This is picture is different but I thought it might add to the conversation - the radiant flows everywhere. Yes, as Bob has very clearly demonstrated, and anyone who has seriously researched has also noticed or reproduced, the ambient surrounding light can also affect the neon.
Nice conversation here - Patrick

[Faraday88]

Faraday it always becomes difficult to have these technically detailed conversations on a forum so I am not going to keep trying to drill down. I offered a hypothetical suggestion to what might have been happening on a system I never saw running.

What I described can and will happen under the conditions I described. If you don't believe it then take a SMALL battery that you know is working fine (not sulphated) and connect it to a LARGE machine. Run as low as possible and the neons probably will not light. Now crank it up and I guarantee you will hit a point as previously described to where it can no longer handle the current. The current saturation stacks up and allows the spike to tickle the voltage up to make the neon glow. One last analogy would be imagine a bucket with a small hole in the bottom. If you pour water slowly into it the water will rise above the hole a little and start to leak out of the hole. If you suddenly dump a whole bucket of water into that bucket the water will keep coming out of the hole but also rise to the top and spill out, that would be the equivalent of the neon coming on, not exactly but sort of.

As far as the trigger goes, yes it does some interesting things having to do with resonance and induction however you do not need a traditional trigger to produce the high voltage. I have built many experimental machines both mechanical and solid state that intentionally do not use a trigger coil to study operation with that feedback removed.

Hi Bob,
It is really a good analogy (the water and the Bucket) that you presented..essentially kind of an Inertial effect right?... but here is why i'm so intricate of this one..the same machine is different videos and in the same video at different times show different situations!! like first of all the neons are seen uniformly lit ON CHARGE in one video where i guess JK is explaining the various parts of the machine (TROJAN Batteries are seen) while the same machine in another instance have a very few of the neons glowing and some quite feebly and intermittently.. and again in the video of the conference where John Bedini has the same Machine is seen with no neons glowing at all!! now what explains this..????? also, your explanation of cranking the machine manually to make the neon glow happens only on the Magneto action with high number Turns of the Inductance remember it is not SSG action of switching the Inductance with a Battery, it is the Magnetic Field switching(Magneto) of the Inductance...you may try this with one of your bike Dynamo, like making the neon glow with it..let me know under what circumstance it glows
Rgds,
Faraday88.

[Faraday88]

EFV - Part 2
[ATTACH=CONFIG]5585[/ATTACH]
This is picture is different but I thought it might add to the conversation - the radiant flows everywhere. Yes, as Bob has very clearly demonstrated, and anyone who has seriously researched has also noticed or reproduced, the ambient surrounding light can also affect the neon.
Nice conversation here - Patrick

Hi min2oly,

Thanks for that picture..yes I have been pondering on various aspect of that Golf cart charger, what is important here again is that the Neons across each transistors are seen GLOWING but we are NOT sure if the out put were connected to the batteries ( by connection i mean both the + and - connected to the battery post) however JB 's demonstration works with even either of them connected to the battery ...in my experiments i could see the neons glowing even on the coil cores...!!!
Rgds,
Faraday88.

[min2oly]

Hi min2oly,

Thanks for that picture..yes I have been pondering on various aspect of that Golf cart charger, what is important here again is that the Neons across each transistors are seen GLOWING but we are NOT sure if the out put were connected to the batteries ( by connection i mean both the + and - connected to the battery post) however JB 's demonstration works with even either of them connected to the battery ...in my experiments i could see the neons glowing even on the coil cores...!!!
Rgds,
Faraday88.

I'm sorry 88, your words here do not make any sense to me...
This picture has nothing to do with being connected to batteries, that just happens to be where he was showing the effect it at the time. Other people have shown it and I have experienced it all over the machine.
- Patrick

[BobZilla]

Faraday,
Just to clarify when I said crank it up I did not mean to manually crank it, I meant change the resistance on the base (lower it) to "crank" the machine up. I meant the term as in give her some gas,, run in high. On a setup with a pot on the base we would just be turning it down a bit. I was not talking about a magneto induction effect.

[Faraday88]

Faraday,
Just to clarify when I said crank it up I did not mean to manually crank it, I meant change the resistance on the base (lower it) to "crank" the machine up. I meant the term as in give her some gas,, run in high. On a setup with a pot on the base we would just be turning it down a bit. I was not talking about a magneto induction effect.

Hey Bob well taken your point ,however when you do that we actually drift away from the Radiant and are closer to Conduction current an then you have db/dt or Faraday Induction with more db (Magnetic Flux Density for the same dt.....
Rgds,
Faraday88.

[BobZilla]

Hey Bob well taken your point ,however when you do that we actually drift away from the Radiant and are closer to Conduction current an then you have db/dt or Faraday Induction with more db (Magnetic Flux Density for the same dt.....
Rgds,
Faraday88.

That was kind of the point Faraday, I know it's been awhile since we were commenting in this thread but I was describing for you conditions to produce your neon glow,, remember what I said about current etc. We were discussing an anomaly and what conditions might have produced it. It's not important anyway but I just wanted to explain that you misunderstood my terminology about "cranking it up".

[F.W.A.N.O.]

fwanoFWANOfwanoFWANOfwano

[Faraday88]

don't know if this fits the topic, if not i'm sorry, but anyway...

When you see that neon indicator glow on the cell cover plug (made of plastic + rubber seal), think about
what would happen if you washed the plug and the opening clean and dry - the neon wouldn't glow anymore
at that spot because that plastic + rubber needs some kind of conductive coating to let the radiant flow.

Tried it with my batteries, it behaved the same as in the video/photo, until, out of a certain curiosity,
i cleaned the plug and hole and the radiant "went away" on that cell plug...
(not really, it just wouldn't flow from the acid inside the cell to the surface because i washed off the acid
coating off the top opening and the plug).

And, topic-wise, on some occasions, the neon indicator on my SSG did react to a nearby light source
in connection with my hands moving around the setup, in certain spots the glow would fade down
and then come back as i moved my hand away, moving the light source also had some effect.

Thanks for pointing it out, this was intriguing the first time i saw it and was not sure if
my setup had a bad connection somewhere or a failing component maybe...
(now i understand this is kinda normal and doesn't even seem to happen every time i run the motor)

Regards,
f.w.a.n.o.

Hey you are dead right!!!!! absolutely dry plastic would never show glow the neon...it is the sulfuric acid spillage over the battery body that conducts the Radiant... even in the original JB video it is the very case happening... but what explains the neon glowing on an absolutely isolated iron core of the ssg..?
Rgds,
Faraday88.

[F.W.A.N.O.]

fwanoFWANOfwanoFWANOfwano

[Faraday88]

That "absolutely" isolated iron core is actually immersed in a constantly pulsating electromagnetic field so it acts as a receiver antenna,
obviously some of that magnetic energy translates into electric potential in the iron and makes the neon indicator glow.

The glow might be suppressed by grounding the iron core with a piece of wire.

A (somewhat) parallel story:
Sometimes i get to repair tools which use a small three phase motor, PWM-driven thru a triple h-bridge (mosfet type),
and many of these machines exhibit "glitches" or variations in motor speed which occur in random intervals.

Once i met a person who worked developing a new version of these tools, and he explained that
in the new version of the tool, they had to include the ground wire in the mains cable
(the older models only had a two-wire mains cable) and had to connect the motor housing and some
other metallic parts to the ground wire because in the previous version of the tool the glitches were
being caused by motor housing, which, being non-grounded, acted as a RF antenna for the motor pulses,
further radiating those pulses into surrounding area and effectively causing interference in the data stream
from the microprocessor to the mosfet driver ICs.

rgds,
f.w.a.n.o.

Hey F.WA.N.O,
Well, what you are pointing out at is the EMI and that is correct of course!! however we are dealing here with more serious Power source that is the Radiant Electricity which is Longitudinal counterpart of this EMI (Transverse Electromagnetic) and the best method to detect it is using the neon glow bulb...wait a minute... if you do the neon test on the body of ungrounded 50hz/60hz line transformer(core) it would like wise glow. This is the traditional way of even Testing the HOT/PHASE side of an AC power line and this is the D.C node in the A.C Line of the Radiant (Longitudinal) with the Increase in Voltage makes it easy to be detected.... BTW why do you want to ground it..it is beneficial this way.. 'free floating Energy'
Rgds,
Faraday88.

[F.W.A.N.O.]

fwanoFWANOfwanoFWANOfwano

[Faraday88]

I didn't mean grounding it in a functional way, just as a test to see if the glow disappears when the core is grounded...

Otherwise, it is being grounded through the neon indicator and the body of the person holding it against the core.

I've seen on the net suggestions to design the coil form so that there can be additional "grids" placed around the core
(in the fashion of the grids inside the E.V. Gray's tube) to collect some energy that way, any info if and how well that works in a SSG?

Regards
f.w.a.n.o.

Hi, You cannot have a grid parallel to the winding direction..but yes it can be placed parallel to the core axis (B-Field vector) to 'extract' this free floating Energy however, this is not what the Grids were meant for in the Gray tube...that is a subject that can be discussed in my Thread on the Gray tube.(It is essentilly a Switch and nothing more)
what you can do is place a Capacitor between this grid shield and to ground and then dump the Charge collected in the usual SSG fashion into a Battery yes that works great enough to collect the wasted Energy...
Rgds,
Faraday88.