Pictures worth a thousand words.....quad coil build and setup to charge L-16 batterys

[Volty]

Hello Tom,

Can you please provide some links within the forum showing the fastest switching configuration? Thank God I have not soldered up all the MJL21194's together yet. Please advise.

Ward

[bigmotherwhale]

Volty, there are a couple of things you can do to speed up the trannies,

Connect a small Schottky diode from base to collector
(Anode to base, Cathode to collector), so that the diode is reverse biased when the transistor is off.
When the transistor is turned on the collector cannot fall more than a Schottky "junction" drop below the base. The transistor this cannot go into saturation and charge accumulated is much smaller so is quicker to get rid of on turn off.

change the value of the capacitor over the diode, this is the speed-up capacitor it reverse biases the base junction, this is how the SSG people speed up their rise and fall times and is known as Cap diode mod.

I am now using a high voltage pulse motor setup, using scavenged switch mode mosfets from server power supplies, and a little simple pull down circuit on the gate. i have only been using this a week or so. rise and fall is much better as High voltage switching is much less stressful than current. if you are using batteries this is not an option, hence the reason why there are so many branches in the bedini devices, to reduce current flow in one area.

oh just to add the speed-up cap needs to be high quality non electrolytic, if its electrolytic this could be your problem

[Tom C]

Volty,

so are you doing a rotored monopole, A solid state SG Circuit or a tesla switch? sounds like you are doing a rotored monopole. this animation here uses the trigger winding, a 555 and an opto https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd2172V0w_Q The CPD mode is purely for solid state. the speed up cap addition can be used on rotored monopoles. google "speed up capacitor" there are several pdf describing the circuit.
you will also find in most of the pdf documents you find the Schotky mod BMW wrote about.

Tom C

[bigmotherwhale]

the circuit he posted was a Tesla switch, the speed up cap was already present in the design.

[Tom C]

Thanks BMW makes a lot more sense now.

Tom C

[Volty]

Volty,

so are you doing a rotored monopole, A solid state SG Circuit or a tesla switch? sounds like you are doing a rotored monopole. this animation here uses the trigger winding, a 555 and an opto https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd2172V0w_Q The CPD mode is purely for solid state. the speed up cap addition can be used on rotored monopoles. google "speed up capacitor" there are several pdf describing the circuit.
you will also find in most of the pdf documents you find the Schotky mod BMW wrote about.

Tom C

Hi Tom and Happy Saturday ! :-)
Yes finished official SGBHB Monopole as the handbook's Rx on 26"bike wheel with C8's, and also 4" Razor wheel from Big-5 with stacked counter-sunk neo's. I am space constrained and the Big Wheel is a problem for me until I can surround with 10 coils and the advanced electronic configurations so it won't be a paper weight.

Yes finished several in-spool SS SSG's with electronics hot-glued into extra spool space, and oh so sweet looking. Photo after Saturday sunshine. I used the One-wire move with extra diode and Cap across Base Pot which Patrick shows. Yes charging is different and the SS wave is almost like square wave Vs. H-shaped wave. Yes I am seasoned with playing with the amount of Base drive applied to either rotored and solid state, and too little power I have found harms damaged batteries that were being successfully recovered with a mix of just radiant and some extra base drive current with it. 9-filar for me likes ~ 600 to 700mA best, but drives wheel from ~ 350mA up to 1.3A way bad useless over-dive. Unless I have more than 4 coils like I am ready to assemble, I find no advantage whatsoever with C8's on Big Wheel. I mention because Of many I have encouraged to build this, 4 of 5 refuse to learn the basics on a ridiculously large diameter wheel with only one coil. Perhaps if they try this proven Big-5 4"-Razor Scooter Wheel as a start, more will attempt learning these things? Pic's later after sunshine.

Yes one-battery Tesla Switch via JB's SG3524 PWM and based on JB's 741 Op-Amp Cap Dump circuit, and is why I chose IRFP250's like it for the Tesla Switch. Yes it ruins batteries by running them down, and just like with SG where JB says "All about the pulse", with Tesla Switch (1, 3, 4 batteries), it is all about the turn-off speed like mechanical switching affords.

What I found with every project is both lone MJL21194 and lone FET do not turn off "Fast" if configured the way the instructions say, and they never will because of Off relaxation being slower than On energizing.

Best back EMF is not being achieved with the instructions that are leading people to solder together expensive components. Speed-up Capacitor info you sent me to says all BJT and all FET's suffer from this. *BigMomma Schotky mod I missed and still do not see somehow. I asked BigMommaWhale what fall-times he was achieving and he would not answer that particular question yet, nor has he provided any link showing best known methods within this forum. What he did say straight off was "I would buy the 130 MJL21193 PNP's" (to address the problem with two-trani setup)

I asked for links within this forum showing the two-trani setup I saw somewhere at Tuks of Ron Brandt TS stuff that used two-traini NPN w. PNP in the TS because it is actually required for success. But you sent me 'out there'. Why? I spent a year out there, now I am trying what you suggested to me last November. This forum.

What fall-times are you achieving Tom? Can you show me how you arrange the parts please oh please? You have my personal e-mail, and i bet by now you see my name is not Wade. If I must refrain from sharing what is shared, please just tell me so in private and I promise to stop asking for help in the forum.

I am like Joe Dirt next to you Tom. I am here to learn the Best Known electronics Methods for this application. I am making a 4-Coiler like Forrest, who it appears just gave up trying, while deciding if i will ever bother winding 6 more.

Thank you in-advance for the links somewhere inside this forum, showing the NPN PNP together / best known BEMF switching method, and Happy Saturday ! :-)

Your friend Ward, who loves the Lord

[bigmotherwhale]

Hi Tom and Happy Saturday ! :-)
Yes finished official SGBHB Monopole as the handbook's Rx on 26"bike wheel with C8's, and also 4" Razor wheel from Big-5 with stacked counter-sunk neo's. I am space constrained and the Big Wheel is a problem for me until I can surround with 10 coils and the advanced electronic configurations so it won't be a paper weight.

Yes finished several in-spool SS SSG's with electronics hot-glued into extra spool space, and oh so sweet looking. Photo after Saturday sunshine. I used the One-wire move with extra diode and Cap across Base Pot which Patrick shows. Yes charging is different and the SS wave is almost like square wave Vs. H-shaped wave. Yes I am seasoned with playing with the amount of Base drive applied to either rotored and solid state, and too little power I have found harms damaged batteries that were being successfully recovered with a mix of just radiant and some extra base drive current with it. 9-filar for me likes ~ 600 to 700mA best, but drives wheel from ~ 350mA up to 1.3A way bad useless over-dive. Unless I have more than 4 coils like I am ready to assemble, I find no advantage whatsoever with C8's on Big Wheel. I mention because Of many I have encouraged to build this, 4 of 5 refuse to learn the basics on a ridiculously large diameter wheel with only one coil. Perhaps if they try this proven Big-5 4"-Razor Scooter Wheel as a start, more will attempt learning these things? Pic's later after sunshine.

Yes one-battery Tesla Switch via JB's SG3524 PWM and based on JB's 741 Op-Amp Cap Dump circuit, and is why I chose IRFP250's like it for the Tesla Switch. Yes it ruins batteries by running them down, and just like with SG where JB says "All about the pulse", with Tesla Switch (1, 3, 4 batteries), it is all about the turn-off speed like mechanical switching affords.

What I found with every project is both lone MJL21194 and lone FET do not turn off "Fast" if configured the way the instructions say, and they never will because of Off relaxation being slower than On energizing.

Best back EMF is not being achieved with the instructions that are leading people to solder together expensive components together. Speed-up Capacitor info you sent me to says all BJT and all FET's suffer from this. *BigMomma Schotky mod I missed and still do not see somehow. I asked BigMommaWhale what fall-times he was achieving and he would not answer that particular question yet, nor has he provided any link showing best known methods within this forum. What he did say straight off was "I would buy the 130 MJL21193 PNP's" (to address the problem with two-trani setup)

I asked for links within this forum showing the two-trani setup I saw somewhere at Tuks of ROn Brandt TS stuff that used two-traini NPN w. PNP in the TS because it is actuallt required for success. But you sent me 'out there'. Why? I spent a year out there, now I am trying what you suggested to me last November. This forum.

What fall-times are you achieving Tom? Can you show me how you arrange the parts please oh please? You have my personal e-mail, and i bet by now you see my name is not Wade. If I must refrain from sharing what is shared, please just tell me so in private and I promise to stop asking for help in the forum.

I am like Joe Dirt next to you Tom. I am here to learn the Best Known electronics Methods for this application. I am making a 4-Coiler like Forrest, who it appears just gave up trying, while deciding if i will ever bother winding 6 more.

Thank you for the links inside this forum, showing the NPN PNP together / best known BEMF switching method, and Happy Saturday ! :-)

Your friend Ward, who loves the Lord

i most certainly did not say buy the PNPs! infact i said the oposite, please read more carefully, and i haven't checked the rise and fall out of fear of damaging my scope im running HIGH VOLTAGE
i told you what could be done to improve off times using reverse junction bias and diodes, what more do you want? a quick google search maybe

http://electronics.stackexchange.com...ple-npn-switch

No it does not ruin batteries by running them down, these were ni cads and they were pretty much flat when the machine was started you could have shorted them out and they wouldn't have exploded, so something else goes on either all the energy ended up in one and it was so overcharged it burst or i don't know, the switch was powering a small incandescent bulb so this seems somewhat unlikely.

[Volty]

i most certainly did not say buy the PNPs! infact i said the oposite, please read more carefully, and i haven't checked the rise and fall out of fear of damaging my scope im running HIGH VOLTAGE
i told you what could be done to improve off times using reverse junction bias and diodes, what more do you want? a quick google search maybe

http://electronics.stackexchange.com...ple-npn-switch

No it does not ruin batteries by running them down, these were ni cads and they were pretty much flat when the machine was started you could have shorted them out and they wouldn't have exploded, so something else goes on either all the energy ended up in one and it was so overcharged it burst or i don't know, the switch was powering a small incandescent bulb so this seems somewhat unlikely.

Hi,

Please forgive me BigMotherWhale for mis-quoting you, without even 'reply with quot'ing you. I see now it was not you who advised to buy PNP's to attempt to switch off actively instead of passively.

To measure switching speed capability, drive an Emiter resistor with Vcc. Look at Base drive signal Vs. the switching on and off you see across the Emitter Load Resistor. Next put any FET or BiPolar in Darlington fashion like the H11D1 to DB243 is, no components between, and use the same load resistor driven with same Vcc or Vdd and observe the reactive elements of the semiconductor seriously degrading the fall-time only. Not the rise-time. Base signal rise same as Emitter signal rise. Not so with fall times, unless you are driving a resistor. Please try this with your O'Scope and show me how it is supposed to look, resistor Vs. the DB243 your H11D1 is driving. Please show your schematic as I have linked what I used and posted scope shots too.


Can you please show the switching configuration you just advise for me, which you have wired up? Also, anyone else showing this Rx being applied successfully in this forum? I tried a 1N4004 with 1uF elctrolytic, them tantilum in parallel, and for these values and parts, they definitely do not address the fall-times i showed in scope shots. Please forgive my many newb questions or if i sound rude. My desire is to find examples being applied here, not out there, for solid state switching, as fast as possible, without IGBT's.

It is my One-Battery-Two-Cap's Tesla Switch that runs down batteries, not yours. I do not correct what you say you did at age 14. I thought you tried lead-acid anyway, that blew up each morning. Yes JB's Cigar Box had NiCad's and Relays and did not run down batteries. My SS TS does run down batteries because #1 the switching method is shown is too slow. #2 the load is not optimun for the capacitor sizes, yet. MJL21194 or IRFP250 samey same. Relaxation turn-off is not as fast as turn on and the Speed-Up Capacitor info you pointed to says so. JB says "It is all about the pulse". That pulse has a fall-time many times more important than the rise-time. That is why mechanical switching works.

Your friend Ward, who loves the Lord

[Tom C]

I have zero experience with a tesla switch, other than the 3 battery switch done over on energetic forum. ALL of my experience is with rotored SG models. so I cannot help you build a better one. send a P.M. to John K he has done some work with the TS. now let me say this about self runners, I hate them!! because you really need at least double the output to do ANYTHING. I prefer energy amplification, charging a huge bank with cap dumps off a little SG with solar primary. the sun is free, get your power system in place with known overunity devices, like a solar panel. my solar panel setup cost me 3K it has returned over 6 K in electricity dollars so far. its all free for me, COP is infinite.

Look over at the erfinder threads, he seems to have found something unique and it may be an area that you can pursue failry quickly if you hav etime and resources.

Tom C

[bigmotherwhale]

I will put a resistive load instead of my coil and measure rise and fall for you.

[bigmotherwhale]

cant do it, might do in the future at lower voltages but it wont mean much, at the moment its not isolated and trips the breakers in my house as current finds its way through the scope ground, i thought as much and planned for the worse using a high value resistor, but those rcds sure are sensitive.
i can tell you at 150 watts input the mosfet will sometimes reach 25 degrees c at lower that 10 percent duty, its on a small heatsink from a psu, that should tell you all you need to know.
If you want fast fall its going to have to be a mosfet, igbt or BJT wont cut the mustard.
I dont know why its so important, seems trivial in this application, how much ringing are you going to get in a battery by doubling the voltage for an instant? or am i missing the point.
ask Kiril_Kirilov to send you his mosfet driving schematic, its simple and effective.

[Volty]

cant do it, might do in the future at lower voltages but it wont mean much, at the moment its not isolated and trips the breakers in my house as current finds its way through the scope ground, i thought as much and planned for the worse using a high value resistor, but those rcds sure are sensitive.
i can tell you at 150 watts input the mosfet will sometimes reach 25 degrees c at lower that 10 percent duty, its on a small heatsink from a psu, that should tell you all you need to know.
If you want fast fall its going to have to be a mosfet, igbt or BJT wont cut the mustard.
I dont know why its so important, seems trivial in this application, how much ringing are you going to get in a battery by doubling the voltage for an instant? or am i missing the point.
ask Kiril_Kirilov to send you his mosfet driving schematic, its simple and effective.

Huh? Why not? 3-Prong to 2-Prong Ground Adapter will isolate your scope Gnd. If you are to measure 220VAC, you need a 1:1 Isolation Toroidal Transformer. Do you have a 3 to 2 Prong Gnd Adapter so you can see safely, without electrocuting yourself or using a breadboard so no changing what you already soldered up (pics? links to pics of your stuff?)



You have been here longer than I. You are chasing high-voltage stimuli because you are not seeing your results are limited by crappy turn-off times. Back EMF is way way way higher, and magnet repulsion too, away from energizer coil, when turning Off very fast. Hang a Cap on your switching output to Gnd and feed your Energizer coil from that and you will see performance crumble because the SG is turning Off even more slowly. The only benefit from Fast forward EMF is attracting the magnet because the over-shoot reaction at rise-time is so tiny. This is why the Blocking Oscillator is so popular for sharp turn Off applications using asynchronous timing. The SG outputs 1N4007 diode passes whatever bucking 'energy' that is not used to repel magnet as a charging pulse that would have been heat-loss otherwise. Key word is "Pulse". Sharp. Fast. If you minimize BEMF with pulse motor designed to capture it, what do you think??

Can't you see this Scotty? We do not need "More Power". We need Faster switching. Do some tests and see fast rise-time is worthless when compared to fast fall-time. It really is "ALL about the Pulse".

I only tried the speed-up Cap in series with Q2 Base drive of this Darlington type config with H11D1 to DB243 like yiu use, and to an IRFP250 instead. My photo shows the load resistors on Emmiter / Source of each. Measure between H11D1 and either kind of Trani. Show me how you made it better please. Thank you in advance.

BTW - To this date, no responding person here has provided one single link to useful information within this forum about the switching speed issue solved within this forum. I will try to search out The Best of ErFinder's posts that you advised just the same. I know you are trying to help me, and thank you for spending some of your time doing that.

Your friend Ward, who loves the Lord! :-)

[bigmotherwhale]

i dont have a ground adapter, i tested rise and fall using high current LV when i built the circuit and found it to be more than adequate, now im using lower current it will be better
if you want to see pics of my stuff look at my thread and there is a vid on there, its pretty basic stuff, im not chasing high voltage because im not getting results, my low volt designs can push a 200ah battery up to 15 volts no problem even with cheap BD243 transistors.
I dont want to limit the freedom of my coils so i can now adjust from 0 to 320, i usually run about 100 - 120 but it depends on coil impedance, mosfets work better with higher voltages and the lower the current the faster the switching.
Its a BD243C not a db243 by the way - getting quite confusing now.

I didnt advise you to do that once again you are confusing me with someone else.

here is the gate driver i use now, if you want better just buy one ready made.


no one has a problem with switching speed thats why there is no information, if you want faster than mosfet can provide - goto rotary spark gaps or klystron tubes.

why dont you ask the your lord?

I asked the creator once and he provided me with a circuit diagram turned out to be a good one.

goodluck man

[bigmotherwhale]

what is that i see over the diode connected to the base? is that an electrolytic cap?

whats that arrow from the diode cap doing? and why is there a mosfet in the diagram not a BJT?


im so confused

[Gary Hammond]

Hi Volty,

BTW - To this date, no responding person here has provided one single link to useful information within this forum about the switching speed issue solved within this forum. I will try to search out The Best of ErFinder's posts that you advised just the same. I know you are trying to help me, and thank you for spending some of your time doing that.

Your friend Ward, who loves the Lord! :-)

Paul Babcock has solved the solid state switching problem and has it patented and commercialized. He doesn't post here, but has been a speaker at the last three conferences. His company is Flyback Energy whose website is flybackenergy.com. I thought I had a copy of one of his patents, but can't find it now. I think he mentioned at the conference, in answer to someone's question, that it involves some combination of a FET and SCR working together with a logic controller.

It switches in just a few nanoseconds and looks like an open mechanical switch to the circuit.