Branch's SSG Build

[Branch Gordon]

That makes sense...I appreciate the detailed answer. So if the base resistors and POT and wired in parallel, then ultimately it's the POT that dials in the turning off/on of the transistors correct? So if you went with 220, 470, or 680...with a 1K POT you could dial in the same overall resistance for all of them and achieve the same transistor behavior, right? Or is this wrong?

Is this is wrong, there must be something happening before the master resistor in the circuit...

its not about temp per se... although extremely low resistance will shove the base on and pass current which you don't want. there is a performance curve for the transistor..... at a given resistance for a given type of magnet for a specific type of core the induced current in the trigger winding is correct to switch the transistor on fully but not on for too long. 470 or 680 ohms. as you reduce base resistance the base stays on longer, causing more current from the primary. you only want the spike, which is the start of the h the rest is battery current not potential. base on too long and the batteries are just connected pos/pos and neg/neg. base not on long enough and you get multiple lower voltage spikes as the transistor oscillates off and on. you want 1 spike, and with most setups 470 will give you one spike. that is the long way of saying it

Tom C

[Branch Gordon]

Hey Bob-

Your inbox is full man.

Yup I agree with what Tom is saying so don't take what I am about to say as a contradiction, he is explaining it exactly as it is.

Anyone watching my new machine thread knows I have been playing around with 2 spike, one spike, three spike to see the differences. When we setup for one spike it seems to me that that is the true spike produced from the induction triggering mechanism. When we get more spikes I think it is the circuit going into self oscillation for a brief time , probably the power winding inducting across the trigger and re-opening the base.

For me a question has been if two spikes could be better, I am not saying they are but just thinking out loud about it. One side of reasoning is that you double the frequency, yes smaller voltage but double the amount of them. I have no way to see the actual spikes to look for the spike potential and that is where it is all at as Tom has said.

In my experiment I am assuming that although 2 spikes has lower voltage the two of them may add up to more harvesting than the one larger one but do not know really for sure, it is an assumption. I am really not putting fourth an assertion that one is better than two or two better than one, just trying to think it through. I know that my machine will charge both ways and I did some runs in my thread to support that.

I shot a video of what I am talking about. I did not really explain all to well in the video what the point is but it shows me running the machine with one spike and two, while looking at the AC frequency across a power coil and also the voltage the meter senses. Again most of this is based on assumption that may not be accurate to what is really happening, these are just honest observations and hypothesis. The actual spike we are all interested is not even represented because I don't have the equipment to monitor it, all I can do is monitor by-products around it.

Here is the video:
https://files.secureserver.net/0s8o4eviuBnWwE

[Branch Gordon]

I continued my experiments with my microphone setup last night. I found another tuning possibility...

I moved the mic up so it was pointing directly at the gap between the coil and the wheel...so I was getting both the sound of the coil and the magnets passing by. What I heard was that that the two sounds were out of phase...pulsing louder and then softer, and pretty fast. As I decreased the resistance, the pulsing become slower, and longer. There is a point where they sync up...and I don't hear any pulsing...it's a VERY fine tuning...one that may need to be accomplished with a smaller POT. I guess what is happening at this tuning is that the magnet frequency and the coil frequency match up. I would never be able to hear this without this mic and cranking it way up. I'll try to record an audio sample over the weekend.

Another thought I'm having in relation to my poor charging...is that my leads aren't soldered very well. I'm using 12ga silicone wire, with ring terminals soldered to the ends. However, the soldering job doesn't look that great...I feel like it could possibly be choking the flow. The leads all pass a continuity test, and the resistance is right around .5 ohms...but I'd like to be sure. I think I'm gonna buy some of these type terminals...as the solder is built in and just melts with heat. Just to be sure.

If that doesn't work...and my new tuning possibilities don't work...well....I have no clue anymore haha.

[BobZilla]

Careful Branch if you are going to buy those exact ones, they are for smaller wire than you said you are using.

[Branch Gordon]

Oh yeah I know...i will be buying the 12-10 gauge version.

Careful Branch if you are going to buy those exact ones, they are for smaller wire than you said you are using.

[min2oly]

That makes sense...I appreciate the detailed answer. So if the base resistors and POT and wired in parallel, then ultimately it's the POT that dials in the turning off/on of the transistors correct? So if you went with 220, 470, or 680...with a 1K POT you could dial in the same overall resistance for all of them and achieve the same transistor behavior, right? Or is this wrong?

Is this is wrong, there must be something happening before the master resistor in the circuit...

try placing a pot at the base and a pot as a branch in series. use at least 3 wires.
play around adjusting the two. example:

bases - 100
branch - 580
then
bases - 200
branch - 480
etc..

See if there is a difference in tuning, you'll have your answer pretty quick. you can also parallel the base resistors you already have w/ a pot or another resistor so you do not have to remove the ones you already have on there. Use the calculator and double check w/ your meter to make sure the bases all match.

I like your thinking and direction on this project.

fill the coil then dump it.
Do not overfill do not underfill.
both the magnet and the primary battery fill the coil.
balance this w/ your "free" switching/trigger.
kind regards,
Patrick

[Branch Gordon]

Hey min2oly,

I am using the 4 trans board from teslagenx, so i think my pot is already in parallel to my base resistors. What is the function of the branch resistor? I dont find mention of it in the SG e-book. I hate to just start turning pots with no understanding of what I am accomplishing...

You also mention "filling" the coil up with energy from the battery and magnets. Are you suggesting that the coil acts as a kind of capacitor? Or did you not mean that literally...

try placing a pot at the base and a pot as a branch in series. use at least 3 wires.
play around adjusting the two. example:

bases - 100
branch - 580
then
bases - 200
branch - 480
etc..

See if there is a difference in tuning, you'll have your answer pretty quick. you can also parallel the base resistors you already have w/ a pot or another resistor so you do not have to remove the ones you already have on there. Use the calculator and double check w/ your meter to make sure the bases all match.

I like your thinking and direction on this project.

fill the coil then dump it.
Do not overfill do not underfill.
both the magnet and the primary battery fill the coil.
balance this w/ your "free" switching/trigger.
kind regards,
Patrick

[Dave Wing]

See post below... This post was a mistake.

[Dave Wing]

This is the way I see it... You want a balance in the SG system. That is... enough potential from your primary dipole to establish a dipole in the coil with out over potentializing your circuitry and wire wrapped power coil. If you use quite a low value of resistor on the base you will induce heat in your coil which is a no no... for effiency. Remember the machine is a energy pump and the coil is a load.

Sure more torque and better charging can be found with a much lower base resistance, but it will cost you in efficiency, in waste heat production and higher amp draw. We want max energy transfer only, with the SG we are looking to conserve the primary battery potential and get a maximum return for our expended primary battery energy.


Most people use to much current in their machines. You will want the best balance ratio you can get from the machine for your current usage.


I think JB opted for the 470 ohm resistor to limit overpotentialization of the power coil and or circuitry and thus keep the machine as balanced as possible for input vs output in charging.

I think the first spike, the first radiant event, at transitor switch closure is what forms the dipole in the SG power coil then the current catches up and that radiant event goes away and you are left with a primary battery that is being depotentialized. The next phase is the trigger shuts off the transistor and the coil collapses and the next radiant event appears again to try and back fill the void left from the collapsing power coil dipole. So again it seems current is not what we need to power the SG. It can do fine on straight vacuum energy if we are able to switch on and off fast enough. Build and release the dipole without current.

I can see two spike formations on my scope but the negative one on switch closure is not really fully registering that well at all but is somewhat there. This proves to me there are two spikes. I will post a shot of this when I get some time.


Just my two cents


Dave Wing

[Tom C]

on the 4 transistor board it is in series. all resistances are in series. the switch is to go between the potentiometer and the fixed resistor.

Tom C

[Branch Gordon]

Tom,

I was going off of post #249 in this thread from ErikN...answering my question and implying that the POT was in parallel with the base resistors...which then prompted my other questions.

Ok (sigh)...the POT is actually in series. Which makes your earlier answer makes A LOT more sense. Do you see now what was the source of my confusion?

I haven't asked the function of the switch...so I'm not sure why that was mentioned. I am curious as to the function of the branch resistor, or jumper (depending on configuration), that is to the left of the switch of the 4TEK board.

on the 4 transistor board it is in series. all resistances are in series. the switch is to go between the potentiometer and the fixed resistor.

Tom C

[Branch Gordon]

Here's an audio file so everyone can hear what I'm hearing with this pulsing coming from the wheel. It is more prominent when I hold the mic up close to the spinning magnets, away from the coil. I guess it just could be interacting with the microphone somehow...but it's interesting regardless. What you will hear is faster pulsing, and then I slowly tune in with the POT to get it to slow down and sync up.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bzs...it?usp=sharing

[Branch Gordon]

Thanks Dave.

This is the way I see it... You want a balance in the SG system. That is... enough potential from your primary dipole to establish a dipole in the coil with out over potentializing your circuitry and wire wrapped power coil. If you use quite a low value of resistor on the base you will induce heat in your coil which is a no no... for effiency. Remember the machine is a energy pump and the coil is a load.

Sure more torque and better charging can be found with a much lower base resistance, but it will cost you in efficiency, in waste heat production and higher amp draw. We want max energy transfer only, with the SG we are looking to conserve the primary battery potential and get a maximum return for our expended primary battery energy.


Most people use to much current in their machines. You will want the best balance ratio you can get from the machine for your current usage.


I think JB opted for the 470 ohm resistor to limit overpotentialization of the power coil and or circuitry and thus keep the machine as balanced as possible for input vs output in charging.

I think the first spike, the first radiant event, at transitor switch closure is what forms the dipole in the SG power coil then the current catches up and that radiant event goes away and you are left with a primary battery that is being depotentialized. The next phase is the trigger shuts off the transistor and the coil collapses and the next radiant event appears again to try and back fill the void left from the collapsing power coil dipole. So again it seems current is not what we need to power the SG. It can do fine on straight vacuum energy if we are able to switch on and off fast enough. Build and release the dipole without current.

I can see two spike formations on my scope but the negative one on switch closure is not really fully registering that well at all but is somewhat there. This proves to me there are two spikes. I will post a shot of this when I get some time.


Just my two cents


Dave Wing

[Tom C]

When I read eriks post it seems he is explaining series parallel in general.

the branch resistor is the resistor that feeds all the base resistors. ok lets look easily at this. the resistors at the base are all in parallel, each base gets 470...... then those 4 resistor feed off the single "branch" resistor (one resistor to four) they branch off.... which is on the 4tek board either the fixed resistor OR the potentiometer, this is determined by the switch position. there is also a grain of wheat bulb in the circuit to help regauge when charging. if you did not get the schematic or cant find it I will send you another one. flip the board over and follow the traces.

people throw the term branch all over the place, some people think it is "all" the transistors off the base, but its not. all resistances are in series in the trigger circuit. the 4 tek board has 2 parallel paths to the base resistors, one is fixed thru the final resistor and one is thru the potentiometer, chosen with the switch.

patrick is suggesting you replace the base resistors with a pot and the branch resistor with a pot.

Tom C

[Branch Gordon]

Ok I see. So in the doc that came with the 4tek board, there are different recommendations for branch resistor values based on different coil wire gauges. But from the circuit path I am understanding, all the fine tuning can be accomplished with the final resistor or POT. So what is the benefit of having a pre-resistor to the base resistors, vs just having the current flowing straight in?

Thx for your help man...its becoming clearer with each post.

When I read eriks post it seems he is explaining series parallel in general.

the branch resistor is the resistor that feeds all the base resistors. ok lets look easily at this. the resistors at the base are all in parallel, each base gets 470...... then those 4 resistor feed off the single "branch" resistor (one resistor to four) they branch off.... which is on the 4tek board either the fixed resistor OR the potentiometer, this is determined by the switch position. there is also a grain of wheat bulb in the circuit to help regauge when charging. if you did not get the schematic or cant find it I will send you another one. flip the board over and follow the traces.

people throw the term branch all over the place, some people think it is "all" the transistors off the base, but its not. all resistances are in series in the trigger circuit. the 4 tek board has 2 parallel paths to the base resistors, one is fixed thru the final resistor and one is thru the potentiometer, chosen with the switch.

patrick is suggesting you replace the base resistors with a pot and the branch resistor with a pot.

Tom C