The importance of using GOOD batteries

[lis_wang]

Hi lis,

the bike wheel kit is designed to charge a 13Ah flooded lead acid battery. I use a West Mountain Radio CBA unit. It allows you to monitor and chart the battery's charge curve and also load the battery down at a specified rate and chart it.

John K.

So West Mountain Radio CBA unit can use for discharge battery, and also plot the chart of discharge and charge. I will buy it.

Can 12V 7.2AH LA battery power and be charged by using the bike wheel kit?

[pontozero36]

Hi Robert,

There are 2 types of SLABs - there's the "maintenance free" ones which are "sealed", which are flooded LABs but you can get to the cell caps and top up the electrolyte. These are OK. They come in both deep cycle and starter.

The other type of course is the gel-cell aka VRLA or AGM which are the ones to stay away from. Eventually these will dry out and I've not had a lot of success with bringing them back. Generally once they dry out the positive plate dries out and cracks and crumbles. Bad batteries, designed so you buy another one in 2-3 years.

Deep cycle or starter depends on what you want to use them for. If you want to use the batteries to power an inverter, which most people do then you need a true deep cycle battery. For load testing an SSG down to 10.5v I would go for this type, but not sure how small the capacity is these days. You can use a starter battery, like a flooded motorcycle or lawn tractor battery as long as you don't discharge them under 12.2v. When we were testing the bike wheel kit at JB's shop we used a 13Ah NAPA lawn tractor battery and we were just taking 1 or 2 Ah out of it. I think one time we took 4 or 5Ah out of it which is fine.

I've been browsing online for 2 days now but i can't find a local manufacturer that makes deep cycle flooded batteries in the range 7-20Ah. All flooded batteries are above the 30Ah range. In the small range, suitable for the SSG by the beginner's book, all manufactures make only VRLAs/AGMs.

I'm buying those batteries only for use to test The SSG for COP figures, i don't see any other use for them right now (maybe after i finished playing with the SSG i'll find one). As the VRLAs in that range are not expensive, it doesn't bother me that their life is only 3 years according to the manufacturer. Maybe battery life will be an issue when i build big multi-coil devices that charge large banks of batteries for off-grid home, but right now it isn't.

Will it be that bad to go with VRLAs/AGMs for now? Does that affect the COP figures or is it battery life the only concearn?

[Tom C]

Napa or other auto parts stores sell "lawn tractor batteries" for small riding mowers, they work well, they make them flooded lead acid and agm style.

when purchasing a new battery, it may not be fully formed. they usually get an initial charge, sometimes though they are shipped dry and the parts store fills them and does an initial charge. either way they may need to be cycled on a regular charger a few times to fully form the plates. a battery needs low current direct DC to fully form the plates.

I had a set of motorcycle batteries that had set on the floor of a store for a couple of years dry. they filled them and I got them back and started charging directly on the SG. horrible cop's no capacity and the batteries were offgassing terribly. 15 cycles on a standard charger brought them up to snuff.

Tom C

[pontozero36]

Tom, i'm in brazil. no napa here. Gardens not common either, big city, everybody living in flat apartments. In the suburbs, either, there isn't this culture of having a lawn and keeping it low... That's an american thing...

Napa or other auto parts stores sell "lawn tractor batteries" for small riding mowers, they work well, they make them flooded lead acid and agm style.

when purchasing a new battery, it may not be fully formed. they usually get an initial charge, sometimes though they are shipped dry and the parts store fills them and does an initial charge. either way they may need to be cycled on a regular charger a few times to fully form the plates. a battery needs low current direct DC to fully form the plates.

I had a set of motorcycle batteries that had set on the floor of a store for a couple of years dry. they filled them and I got them back and started charging directly on the SG. horrible cop's no capacity and the batteries were offgassing terribly. 15 cycles on a standard charger brought them up to snuff.

Tom C

[Tom C]

http://www.concordebattery.com/dealers.php?id=105

[pontozero36]

It seems all manufacturers are switching to VRLAs...

http://www.concordebattery.com/flyer.php?id=50

Do you know of a model of this manufacturer that is in the SSG beginner's range and not VRLA?

Still browsing, but if you know the manufacturer, maybe you'll be faster...

Thanks a lot

[pontozero36]

Also, most bats in this site are specified in C1 rate... Please help me, i'm lost!!!

[pontozero36]

just mailed the manufcturer asking to tell me wich model is suitable (asked for deep cycle flooded lead acid batteries - NOT VRLA/AGM - 12V 7-20Ah C20 specs).

[pontozero36]

Still browsing but can't find small 7-20Ah deep cycle flooded batteries in my country that are NOT VLRA/AGM. I found some motorcyle starter batteries instead. Does that fit?

http://www.ajax.com.br/ajax/pt/index.php
http://www.moura.com.br/pt/produtos/mouramoto1
http://www.bateriasmaxlife.com.br/Mo...bs#formModelos
http://issuu.com/casullocomunicacaod...066655/2945286

I'm buying those batteries only for use to test The SSG for COP figures, i don't see any other use for them right now (maybe after i finished playing with the SSG i'll find one). As the VRLAs in that range are not expensive, it doesn't bother me that their life is only 3 years according to the manufacturer. Maybe battery life will be an issue when i build big multi-coil devices that charge large banks of batteries for off-grid home, but right now it isn't.

Is it that bad to stick to VRLAs, just to play with COP figures??

http://www.ritarpower.com/products.a...d=15&pcatid=14
http://www.secpower.com.br/2008/prod...ha=fp&serie=fp
http://unipower.com.br/index.php?opt...raw&Itemid=111

[pontozero36]

ok,

Here's what i thought. Market is massively moving to VRLAs or AGM sealed maintainace free batteries, and this has a reason. The reason is those batteries are for domestic uses: toys, no-breaks, skateboards, eletric bikes, etc... So the reason is SAFETY. When the application is bigger and industrial, common open LABs are usual, but the industry has its own safety and training standards for the personnel.

I'm going to use my ssg in an appartment, shared with wife and kids, don't have much room for a separate place locked and safe, so i'm very inclined to using VRLAs sealed maitainance free batteries for a start. It is intended to last only for my charge-discharge cicles test, one with my ssg and other with conventional charger, to make comparisons.

The big question i asked and didn't have an answer is: does using VRLAs affect COP measures or is it just a battery life concearn?

[Tom C]

JB has always said to use a lead acid battery so that is what is reccommended. a motorcycle starter battery will work. remember they will need to be cycled on a standard charger first. that "type" of battery is notorious for not being fully formed as they are shipped dry. it will produce huge hydrogen bubbles for a few cycles as it forms, watch your water levels.

your COP may vary.... my very first SG was run with werker Sealed Lead Acid and it did alright.

Tom C

[pontozero36]

JB has always said to use a lead acid battery so that is what is reccommended. a motorcycle starter battery will work. remember they will need to be cycled on a standard charger first. that "type" of battery is notorious for not being fully formed as they are shipped dry. it will produce huge hydrogen bubbles for a few cycles as it forms, watch your water levels.

your COP may vary.... my very first SG was run with werker Sealed Lead Acid and it did alright.

Tom C

Ok, i'll stick with motorcycle starter batteries. But they'll not be good for deep cycle application afterwards, right?

[Tom C]

no, but they are good for low current applications like running led's, they just cannot deliver a ton of amp hours and dont like to go below 12.2
Tom C

[D Rhodes]

dlemma of an apartment

Ok, i'll stick with motorcycle starter batteries. But they'll not be good for deep cycle application afterwards, right?

If you are really worried about safety, you could put your batteries in a wooden box, something acid proof, with breather slots and position it near a window so the fumes don't affect you. It makes it difficult to hook them up to the SG though. When I used 5aH motorbike batteries, which were dry and I filled them..I made little wooden boxes for them to sit in, but without covering the top of the battery. They tended to lose some water/acid whilst charging. My machine was to large for them. The motorbike batteries were for when everyone built bifilar coils with 1 transistor, not these 8 filar beasts. True Tom? If it was me, I would go for the bigger amp hour flooded type with these 8 filar coils. But your dilemma with only an apartment to use it in is a concern. The gases are explosive if not enough ventilation. Do you have a balcony maybe?
Dennis