Is your SSG running correctly? Are you sure!

[Forrest]

Hi All,

Thought I would write this article on the SSG running wrong. All of the coils I have wound and assembled have been running wrong and I never knew it until I had an over heating problem. Tom had illuded to the overheating saying that my transistors were staying on too long. John then later stated something else about replicating his original lab machine. So just for the grins I decided to build a nice pro quality machine and during the assembly of it I had a brain fart! I thought about what John had said about the coil being wound clockwise. This is when I had this sinking feeling that I have been wrong all along. My machines have all been running wrong!

I started examining my own scope shot pictures and one night laying in bed I knew the answer......my machines were running off the south pole......even though the north magnets were facing outward toward the coil. The give away proof was in the scope shots and considering the magnet spacing arrangements I had been using. Also the heat problem I had encountered with the very large 8 lead coils.

When I examined the scope shots the answer was staring me right in the face. The width of the pulse was way way too long.....causing the coil to stay on way way to long also......getting hot like a car coil would do when running. This is what John has been preaching all along. Nothing gets hot....but he never said how or why. Well now I know why! And I want you to know why also!

When we think back to the DVD's JB had made a chart of the magnetic field on cardboard with a marker on the ssg there was of corse the north field caused by the magnet but in between the magnets a south field that now protrudes outward away from the wheel just like the north. If you have a field detector you can see this for yourself. I have done this several times and noted the south field protrusion. Do any of you think that this field is strong enough to trigger the transistors and run the machine. It is strong enough and the machine will run all day this way! Not the way JB had intended!

So being left handed I have been winding the coils the opposite way and not paying attention to the winding detail and also to the right hand rule. This still amazes me but when the coil is mounted south up (towards the wheel) the transistors will trigger off the south field in between the north magnets. If you mount the coil north up (toward the wheel) the transistors will trigger off the north magnet faces.

The north fileds are very intense due to the proximity of the coil face when running. The south field is weak compared to the north but will fire the transistor if the coil is mounted wrong side up.

Look at the pictures below of the scope shot and notice the "W" I have drawn out. What does the "W" represent? It is the total time the transistor remains on during the work cycle. Notice how very long the 8 lead coil is. This why the heat was prevelant in the coil after long run times. You can also see the varying widths of the "W" on the first two shots. My magnets have varying spacing and it is evident in these first two pictures. How can I have a varying "W" width if all of the magnets are the same width? The scope "W" widths should all be the same for the magnet north face. But these vary in width and prove I am triggering off of the south pole or on the gap betwen the magnets.

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/...peshotquad.jpg

If you now look at the recent scope shots where I have now changed my coils all of the "W" widths are the same width and now firing off of the north face. I would have never figured this problem out if I had not had a nonlinear magnet spacing to show this on the scope.

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/...eshotnorth.jpg

How many of you have this issue of the machine running wrong and dont know it? This problem causes an increased load on the input side and causes the coils to get warm or hot. It also causes poor charging. You also cannot see it if you have evenly spaced magnets close together!

Tom is the only moderator who picked up on this and made me think about it. Thanks Tom and JB! I will never make the same mistake twice and I now know 10 times more than I did yesterday. All of my coils are now rewound and charging is much much higher and everything is running ice cold.....just like it should with very low amperage input.

I also know one more thing that JB has ben harping about since day one. Do not use neo magnets.....why?.....because the field is so intense that the magnetic field is much much larger and the transistors will stay on a very long time. I know this from past experience! Even three inches away the neos fire the trannies no problem!

I hope this article has opened your eyes and made you consider how very complex this little bastard is. The SSG!

Get yours running correctly and you will have no problems charging batteries......ever!

Here are some other extra pictures just for reference showing the fixed north. In the following pictures I am charging the L-16 batteries with 20 volts input @ 2 to 3 amp.

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/...wersupply8.jpg

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/...g-4leadssg.jpg

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/...g-4leadssg.jpg

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/...dscopeshot.jpg

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/...eshot8lead.jpg

As an added extra I have also duplicated JB's 7 lead coil SSG you see in his videos. I wanted to do this and build something nice for myself that is not all hillbillied up. I think it turned out fairly well. I know JB said to use #20 but all I had was #18 and it works just fine. Check it out! The base is made from AZEK that is pvc cemented together and the bearings for the shaft are self aligning needle type flange mount. 21 magnets. The machine is very quiet and charges like hell. I am definately not sorry I built it.

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/.../whitessg1.jpg

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/...tessgflash.jpg

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/...essgflash2.jpg

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/...tessgfront.jpg

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/...scopeshot7.jpg

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/...owersupply.jpg

At the end of the day now I can say that I have had one the most trying educations in this arena. But I have to say that now I have a very good grap on the concept of the SSG devise.

Bud

[Tom C]

Great build! Now get your rods flush with the top of the coil and adjust your coil height, tell us if it charges even better or not.

Tom C

[Forrest]

Hi Tom,

Is the rod height really an issue? Not that I am in the know on this......just don't have a clue. Please advise.

Bud

[Tom C]

Hi Tom,

Is the rod height really an issue? Not that I am in the know on this......just don't have a clue. Please advise.

Bud

look at all of JB's builds, do you see any with the rods the way you have them? It may not make a difference for your build, or it might. Do a few runs the way you have it then a few more with the rods closer, you will have your answer. I encourage everyone to get it as close to John's as possible, he does everything for a reason.......

Tom C

[Tom C]

Just for grins what is your primary current draw? coil wire length? trannies matched? diodes and resistors matched? take out those 5408's and put in 4007's it might get even better. should be a 1 amp machine.

Tom C

[Forrest]

Hi Tom,

This morning I did go out and move the core flush to the top of the coil face and shimmed the whole coil up to within around 1/8" to the magnet plane. When I fired it up I noticed that the tuning aspect was more accute and way more responsive rather than being sluggish when the rods extended above the coil face.

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/.../coilshim2.jpg

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/...o/coilshim.jpg


As for the coil length it is 132'/ just happens to be to be a pole that I have a spike in for this distance and can easily shorten to 130'. ......will change to 4007's........resistors are matched......trannies are matched.....diodes are matched......but the 7 leads are #18........amperage draw right now right now is 1.8 amp. This is probably due to the increase in power coil lead size.

The battery you saw beside the ssg was put in the back of my truck for junk and had no water to the top of the plates. Just for fun I topped it off and charged it all night from 8 volts to 14.35 volts this morning. Who knows I might be able to salvage it.

Bud

[Tom C]

Hi Tom,

This morning I did go out and move the core flush to the top of the coil face and shimmed the whole coil up to within around 1/8" to the magnet plane. When I fired it up I noticed that the tuning aspect was more accute and way more responsive rather than being sluggish when the rods extended above the coil face.

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/.../coilshim2.jpg

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/...o/coilshim.jpg


As for the coil length it is 132'/ just happens to be to be a pole that I have a spike in for this distance and can easily shorten to 130'. ......will change to 4007's........resistors are matched......trannies are matched.....diodes are matched......but the 7 leads are #18........amperage draw right now right now is 1.8 amp. This is probably due to the increase in power coil lead size.

The battery you saw beside the ssg was put in the back of my truck for junk and had no water to the top of the plates. Just for fun I topped it off and charged it all night from 8 volts to 14.35 volts this morning. Who knows I might be able to salvage it.

Bud

you can reduce current draw 2 ways, resistor changes on the base, and moving the coil away from the rotor..... figure out a way to move your coil easily, you have the skills obviously!! it will be very obvious where the best charging is.

Tom C

[Forrest]

Hi Tom,

I did a 12 volt test and the amperage draw was @ 1 amp but when I go to 20 volts the amperage draw is @ 1.8 amp. I will move the coil away from the magnet plane a little @ a time and see what the resuts are.

Bud

[Tom C]

why are you running at 20 volts?

Hi Tom,

I did a 12 volt test and the amperage draw was @ 1 amp but when I go to 20 volts the amperage draw is @ 1.8 amp. I will move the coil away from the magnet plane a little @ a time and see what the resuts are.

Bud

No do not go to 20 volts, run at 12 volts 1 amp, that is a good place to be. remember we charge on natures timeline, this is not a force charger. little or no current allows the radiant. current kills radiant. ralphs 6 coil was only 2 or 2.5 amps at the conference, with 5 more coils same wire size, although only 4 wires per coil, so you have an equivilant of a 2 coil machine when compared to ralph's with 34 strands, 4 on each coil.

anyone can charge with a higher voltage on the primary, the SG circuit is designed for 12 volts.

some of the rules of the single coil multifilar SG

max 1 amp at 12 volts less may be better depending upon the battery.
same size batteries front to back
C20 draw from the primary
cold transistors
cold batteries
coil 1 to 1.2 ohm per power strand
C8 ceramics
this machine may not pass the 1 ohm test, as it has more transistors.

the point is with an SG you can charge a battery to 16 volts with a 12 volt primary.

John K Erik and I tuned the last set of single coil machines he built at 1 amp. that is where he wanted them.

Tom C

[machinationus]

Hi All,

Thought I would write this article on the SSG running wrong. All of the coils I have wound and assembled have been running wrong

snip

At the end of the day now I can say that I have had one the most trying educations in this arena. But I have to say that now I have a very good grap on the concept of the SSG devise.

Bud

Thanks for that!
What do you mean by left hand wind? I've been winding them to the right and away from start, Clockwise.
would putting narrow magnets be any help ?

[Mike Swanson]

Thanks for that!
What do you mean by left hand wind? I've been winding them to the right and away from start, Clockwise.
would putting narrow magnets be any help ?

Wow, so after spending a week winding this perfect new coil I read this and discover the day I finish that I wound it the wrong way. I went by the diagram, but I had to restart it a couple of times and I guess I switched it. A suggestion--could someone replace the coil winding diagram in the sticky thread with this one or one like it, it might make me feel a teeeeeny bit better right now.



*edit* Glad to have the winding xp but for future reference, counter clockwise coil wind with N pole of magnets on wheel facing out should be better than clockwise (unless S poles are facing out). Explanation is in Bedini SG Manual book! And if you want to switch the polarity of coil you can apparently switch the top with the bottom of power and the top with the bottom of the trigger winding where they connect to the circuit (or switch the poles facing out of the magnets on the wheel) rather than rewinding your coil.

[James Milner]

Don't worry Mike,
I reckon you won't ever make this mistake again!
It's all part of the learning experience. At least you didn't have to throw out your coil and start again.....like me.
My original was a #23, #26 bifilar with 4 joins on each strand with kinks. I wonder why I bothered but I learned quite a few things. I experimented with C5 magnets and neo's and they are now in a corner collecting dust.
I might go there again AFTER I work out the fine detail of my current spec machine.
Keep up the good work!

[Mike Swanson]

Don't worry Mike,
I reckon you won't ever make this mistake again!
It's all part of the learning experience. At least you didn't have to throw out your coil and start again.....like me.
My original was a #23, #26 bifilar with 4 joins on each strand with kinks. I wonder why I bothered but I learned quite a few things. I experimented with C5 magnets and neo's and they are now in a corner collecting dust.
I might go there again AFTER I work out the fine detail of my current spec machine.
Keep up the good work!

Ha, yeah, I'm glad I caught it, thanks Forrest! It is good experience, I'm glad that this forum exists so that it's easier to learn from others' experience--as I might've spent months doing lackluster charging runs and wondering what the problem is. So far my machine problems are small compared to what you guys have successfully ironed out .

[Gpilot]

Here is a video for my bedini sg.
YouTube
The problem i am having, is with my resistor. The only way i have been able to get my machine to opperate, is to bypass the resistor. It never works, ever, with a resistor or any size. I know that without a resistor, the amp draw will be very high, and the charging will be undesirable. What can i do to get my sg to function with a resistor? Currently, i am getting about 120-180 rmp with my wheel. I can change the dioide between the base and emitter, but i have tried several different circuits, with many different parts, and it never works untill i bypass the resistor.. So, I am sure that my machine ISNOT running correctly.

[Forrest]

Hi Gpilot, I am sure we all need to know a little more data before anyone is willing to speculate on why you can leave the resistor out. The main thing is you have it running but is it running correctly? Give us all the data you can! Magnet arrangement.......coil size......shape ......size..... nuber of leads turns .....lead length....size of conductors. Did you wind the coil and does it follow the exact specs on the winding diagram? How all the electronics are hooked up to one another.....wire size. The more information the better.

Bud