Complete Bedini SG Book!

[Gary Hammond]

Hi Rodolphe,

Hi Gary,

Thanks for your answers and the links to your website and video of Peter. I’ll have a look at them.

2# Radiant energy spike on input/output
The reasons why I would like to make the 300V+ spike visual on my scope (or by other means) are as follows:
When demonstrating the my SG to my friends, or in the future also to others, I would like to show them the experiment where John talks about in DVD 24: Instead of connecting a battery to the output, put a 1Ohms resistor there (or a set of lights/lamps). He mentions that if the SG is running correctly, the resistor should not get hot.
This experiment together with visual proof of the high voltage spikes will put a question mark above their heads since with ohms law you would expect the resistor to be fried: 300V / 1Ohm -> 300A. But at the moment I can only say that the voltage spike is around 300V+ because I’ve been told so in the DVDs/Handbooks.
But also out of my own curiosity I would like to see it visualized at least once (with my scope e.g.). If I would disconnect battery B briefly and measure over a Neon bulb, I would just see a 110V spike I assume (my neons come on at 110V). So if there is no way to measure/visualize it. How does John know it is that value (ballpark 300V)?

7# Cap discharge 555 circuit
My questions/remarks regarding the discharge circuit I’ve posted on the forum thread that you sent me: http://www.energyscienceforum.com/fo...uestions/page4

Best regards,
Rodolphe

#2
The transistors don't like the 300 volt spikes! If you really want to see these spikes on your scope, you can remove the coil leads from the transistor collectors and instead power the coils through a momentary contact push button switch. Because the switch is mechanical, it will survive a few rapid pulses of current flow into the coils. You can then measure across either the coils or the switch with your scope to see the high voltage produced when the switch opens. You will also see the ringing that takes place in the coils when they are switched off.

I haven't watched video #24 in a while, but I thought John showed using a 1 ohm resistor rather than a 10 ohm one? This will still heat up a little with a seven power winding coil from Teslagenx. It will also dimly light a single automotive type 12 volt bulb. You can also charge a capacitor on the output and place a 12 volt bulb across the cap to limit the voltage.

With my SSG (same coil and circuit board as yours) I can charge a 12 volt battery with a 500 ma load of LEDs while it is charging and the battery voltage will still climb. This shows that the machine can still charge a battery while it is carrying a load! And here's a link to a post where it was running in common ground mode and pulling a 1+ amp load while charging a 12 volt battery.
http://www.energyscienceforum.com/fo...7838#post27838

Gary Hammond,

[pearldragon]

Hi All,

In “DVD 24: Bedini Monopole masterclass I” John says that you can connect a 1-Ohm resistor between the output wires of the SG and if it heats up, the SG is not running correctly.

I just put that to the test by putting a 100-Ohms resistor between the output wires and held it between my fingers, but the resistor heated up quickly to the point that I could not hold it anymore, so I shut the machine down again. Neons were flashing as well during this exercise.

Can any of you test this as well? / Have feedback for me?

Thanks in advance,
Rodolphe

Update @ 1:40pm
Started to doubt whether John maybe meant the resistor in series with the battery rather then just swapping the resistor for the secondary battery. So I tried that as well, see picture, but with the same results: resistor heats up and the neons flash.

P.S.
Just had another quick look at the DVD 24; later in the DVD he connects some car lamps between the output of the SG with a resistance of 0.4-Ohm, see screenshots.

[Gary Hammond]

Hi Rodolphe,

My wife and I are busy packing today for vacation and will be on the road through the weekend. It will be the middle of next week before I'll have the time available to respond to your latest questions.

Regards,
Gary Hammond,

[pearldragon]

Hi Gary,

Thanks for your answers and the links to your website and video of Peter. I’ll have a look at them.

2# Radiant energy spike on input/output
The reasons why I would like to make the 300V+ spike visual on my scope (or by other means) are as follows:
When demonstrating the my SG to my friends, or in the future also to others, I would like to show them the experiment where John talks about in DVD 24: Instead of connecting a battery to the output, put a 1Ohms resistor there (or a set of lights/lamps). He mentions that if the SG is running correctly, the resistor should not get hot.
This experiment together with visual proof of the high voltage spikes will put a question mark above their heads since with ohms law you would expect the resistor to be fried: 300V / 1Ohm -> 300A. But at the moment I can only say that the voltage spike is around 300V+ because I’ve been told so in the DVDs/Handbooks.
But also out of my own curiosity I would like to see it visualized at least once (with my scope e.g.). If I would disconnect battery B briefly and measure over a Neon bulb, I would just see a 110V spike I assume (my neons come on at 110V). So if there is no way to measure/visualize it. How does John know it is that value (ballpark 300V)?

7# Cap discharge 555 circuit
My questions/remarks regarding the discharge circuit I’ve posted on the forum thread that you sent me: http://www.energyscienceforum.com/fo...uestions/page4

Best regards,
Rodolphe

[Gary Hammond]

Hi Rodolphe,

#1
My SSG running in generator (common ground) mode will consistently get an electrical COP over 1 in amp hours. However, if you take voltage into account and compare the watt hours, it comes out a little under a COP of 1. When I repeatedly swap the batteries back and forth, it takes a little longer each cycle to recharge the charge battery. Here's a link to my home page that shows that. http://www.garyhammondonline.com/Alt...nd%20Resources

Here is a machine that Peter Lindemann demonstrated that has a COP over 1.

It is usually better to swap batteries than to try feeding the output back to the run battery. The charge carriers in batteries flow one direction to charge and the opposite direction to discharge. They don't flow both directions at the same time. So a battery is either charging, discharging, or static.

#2
You won't see the 300 volt spike on the scope unless it has nowhere to go. In this case it will likely destroy the transistor. The spike has to be absorbed by the battery to be effective and not destructive. Because there is impedance in the battery leads, the battery, the transistor and associated wiring the scope will show only the voltage developed across the various impedances. In a good system this will be in the range of 20 to 80 volts and is usually measured across the transistor.

There is a small amount of current along with the radiant spike and also there is an electric field around the conductor that the sniffer coil can detect.

[pearldragon]

Hi Gary,
Back in the ring to take another swing :

#1 COP & Swapping primary/secondary batteries

With any system where you swap batteries back and forth and your electrical efficiency is less than 100%, you will eventually run both batteries down. With the mechanical work added in, you can easily get a COP over 100% even if the electrical efficiency is under 100%!

Ok, but speaking about my current Radiant Spike version, even in the theoretical case that I would use the mechanical energy, would bring the COP up into the 85% area (as you mention as well). Only when completing the SG up and until the Advanced Handbook, you go over a 100% COP correct?

If you get a system that will actually get both batteries to keep gaining voltage you will be well over unity and will have to use the extra energy in some type of electrical load to keep from overcharging the batteries.

Is there a system/circuit developed for this already? -> That a part from the output would feed back to the primary battery, to the point that it doesn’t discharge/needs to be swapped with the secondary?

#2 Radiant energy spike on input/output
Thanks for the photo; makes it very clear together with your story. I’ll consider making something like that myself too, to see what my scope will show me.

So when you write in your previous post (#216 01-22-2020), that you can see a voltage spike when the radiant event occurs, this confuses me a bit for the following reason:
I would expect that the sniffer coil only can pick something up if there is a magnetic field surrounding the leads. A magnetic field (in my understanding) is only created when there is current. But as far as I understood it so far, the whole thing about this radiant spike is that it is only voltage, no current. So if the radiant spike is currentless -> no magnetic field surrounding the leads -> how can the sniffer coil pick it up?

Assuming I’m missing something in the above mentioned reasoning (since you say you do pick up a voltage spike at the time of the radiant event), my question remains; is this the way to make the 300V+ peaks visible on a scope? And/or are there other ways to make them visible on a scope? (The H-shape I can make visible on my scope as we talked about in previous posts, but the 300+V peaks of this H-shape I have not seen yet on my scope.)

#6 Over potentializing
The time when I overcharged the battery t 16+V, when disconnecting the SG from the battery I kept logging the battery voltage for +/-25 minutes, see enclosed graph. It doesn’t stick to 14V as Peter mentioned in the handbook, but it does seem to flatten out around 13.7V. in hind sight I should have let the log run longer. And see to see the continuation of the graph. Maybe I should do another run and monitor again the voltage drop after charging for a longer time.

#7 Capacitor discharge schematic on page 47 of Intermediate Handbook
Thanks! I’ll be coming back on this one; need to read through that forum thread first.
When I’m posting about this, should I do it here or on the forum thread you sent me the link for?

Thanks again for all your time!
Best regards,
Rodolphe

[Gary Hammond]

Hi Rodolphe,

I'll try to answer all your questions as best I can.

#1
I don't know what kind of charger John was using in the video to charge his primary battery, but he did say not to swap batteries between the primary (run) and secondary (charge) positions when radiantly charging. I've done this several times with no detrimental effect on the batteries if they are fully recharged each time to 15.3 volts. Also, Peter Lindemann told me that He and John did this as well, but that radiantly charged batteries didn't respond well to "hot" chargers after several cycles of being radiantly charged. I don't use any "hot" chargers so I haven't encountered this problem.

With the standard SSG book build running from a small 12 volt primary battery the measured amp hours used to radiantly charge another 12 volt battery is more than what you get back from the charged battery. Electrically speaking it will only give back a little over 50% of what you put into the SSG. But you also are getting some mechanical energy as well which brings the overall COP up to 80 or 90%. With larger batteries and higher voltages you can get the electrical return over 100% as John did with his 10 coiler and large cell tower batteries.

With any system where you swap batteries back and forth and your electrical efficiency is less than 100%, you will eventually run both batteries down. With the mechanical work added in, you can easily get a COP over 100% even if the electrical efficiency is under 100%! If you get a system that will actually get both batteries to keep gaining voltage you will be well over unity and will have to use the extra energy in some type of electrical load to keep from overcharging the batteries.

#2
My sniffer coil is just a few (200 or 300?) turns of AWG 26 wire wrapped around a short piece of 3/4" pvc plastic pipe. The coil is placed at 90 degrees next to a battery lead and the ends of the coil are connected to the O-scope probe and it's grounding lead. It "sniffs" the electrical field surrounding the battery lead and displays the waveform on the scope. Here's a picture of it.



#3
Yes. That's the CBA unit I have. It will monitor discharging or charging either one, but in charge mode it only shows voltage and not current. To check current from the run battery you can use an ammeter or a hall device hooked to your O-scope.

#4
Don't worry about the end voltage during a measured discharge, what's important is the amp hours or watt hours compared to what it takes to bring it back to a fully charged condition. The battery isn't fully recharged until it reaches 15.3 volts.

#5 and #6
These are related. "Over potentializing" is a term John and Peter came up with to explain why the batteries drop back very slowly to their nominal voltage after being radiantly charged. The conditioning refers to charging more quickly after several charge/discharge cycles back to back. This effect is lost after 48 to 72 hours of rest and is related to the "over potentializing" effect. They theorized that over voltage applied to the electrolyte caused the charge carriers to gain and retain some momentum without using outside current flow. They compared it to kicking a ball instead of just pushing a ball. You hit the charge carriers with a short pulse of high voltage and then wait while the momentum kicks them to the opposite polarity. And there may be some electret action involved.

I have observed that most of the batteries I charge with either the SSG or any of the teslagenx chargers drop back very slowly to their nominal standing voltage. And after repeated charging the nominal voltage will actually increase from 12.6 volts to 12.8 or 13.0 volts.

#7
There is an error in the schematic of the cap discharge circuit shown in the intermediate handbook and in your attachment. This is what it should look like. http://www.energyscienceforum.com/fi...fetch?id=49948

And here's a link to the thread where the correct schematic is shown. http://www.energyscienceforum.com/fo...atic-questions

[pearldragon]

Hi Gary,

I hope you’re ready for another little booklet of SG questions

#1 Swapping primary/secondary batteries
Ok, so in these DVD when John is talking about the not-swapping of the batteries (when he’s talking about the “radiant” version, see page 2 of the attachment), he’s only talking about a situation when you’ve charged the primary with a “hot”/regular charger?
He says something like “it’s a different form of energy” (between the primary and the secondary). And “If you swap them, you’ll run them both down” (or something like that). But if I continue reading in your story, when you say in radiant mode you’ll do well going over 50%, that implies that you’re running both batteries down anyways if just using a “radiant” version of the SG (like mine currently)…

#2 Radiant energy spike on input/output
#2.1 can you please tell me a bit more about a “sniffer coil”? I assume this is a coil that helps you pick-up a signal that otherwise cannot be seen? How/why does this work/?
#2.2 What are the specs of this coil?
-outer dimensions of the bobine
-nr of turns / which wire thickness (AWG number)
-can you show me in a quick sketch how you connect it? Just in parallel with the primary (or secondary) battery?
#2.3 Do I understand correctly that with this sniffer coil it is possible to make the high radiant spike (300V+) visual on a scope? It is not possible to make this spike visual on a scope in another way?
(this question relates to my earlier post #198, 03-02-2019 & your reply #200, 03-05-2019, question nr 5).

#3 measuring Ah
I never heard of a CBA before, I just looked at this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCAldsdSE8E . Is that the version you have?
This would be so much easier and more accurate than what I’ve tried to do with my discharge circuit…. I need something like this too. Will have a look if they’re for sale here in Europe or an equivalent.
But then at the input I reckon there is the still an inaccuracy: the amperage drops there as well over time. Maybe not so much but still and then there is the accuracy/inaccuracy of the amp meter…

#5 Battery cycles
As you can see in the charge graphs I did charge the battery up to 15.3V every time, so that factor was more or less constant. I assumed discharging the battery to a set voltage (rather than time), would deplete the battery to the exact same level with every discharge.
In Chapter 6 of the Intermediate Handbook, where the charge/discharge cycles with a Golf Cart and a Bedini charger are discussed, Peter speaks about a “conditioning” of the battery that is taking place. I was expecting to see a similar effect in my graphs. In other words, I expected that if I do 2 charge/discharge cycles in one day, that the second time I charge the battery it would do it in less time. When John performed his tests with the Golf Cart, he drove for 6 kilometer every day, then it depended on how steady his foot was if this would take exactly the same amount of time every day.

#6 Over potentializing
In chapter 7, page 56 of the Intermediate Handbook, Peter talks about the phenomena of “over-potentializing”. That after the battery was charged, it would stay for 90 minutes at 14V before dropping to +/-12.6V. This phenomena does not (yet) take place after I’ve charged (radiantly) with my SG. Will this take place after finishing my SG up and until the final handbook? Or is there another reason why it doesn’t take place (yet)?

#7 Finishing the Intermediate Handbook build
This week I ordered my parts to continue building my SG, adding the capacitor circuit, as shown on page 47 of the intermediate handbook (also see page 3 in the attachment). For the capacitor selection there was no ESR spec given other than a recommendation for “photo flash” type. Voltage and capacitance are suggested around 60000uf / 80V. So I just selected some ESR value, hoping that they can discharge fast enough. The ones I selected have an ESR of 14mOhm (3x Mallory 25000uF, 75V type CGS253U075X4C ). Any idea if this is fast enough? What would be the maximum ESR for a Capacitor to be suitable for this circuit?
Furthermore, I saw that the voltage regulator chip 7812 has a max input voltage of 32V (highlighted in red on page 3 of the attachment). So it seems to me that if the 555 timer is not tuned correctly, charging the capacitor higher than 32V, you may blow up this chip immediately. So I though replacing the 7812 chip for a resistor and Zener diode might be safer, correct?
Many Thanks in advance,
Best regards,
Rodolphe

[Gary Hammond]

Hi Rodolphe,

..........................................But there is one thing in particular in your comments about having the battery at the input that I do have some questions about. You say that the battery at the primary battery will also receive some radiant voltage.
My questions regarding that statement are as follows:
-As well in DVD 6 (Radiant energy, @+/- 2min) as in DVD 24 (Bedini Monopole masterclass I, @+/-49min) John mentions specifically that you cannot swap the input and the output battery, since the form of energy is different (taking into account that he is talking about a SG that has NOT yet a separate capacitor load circuit like in the second half of the Intermediate Manual). I thought I understood this somewhat with the fact that the secondary battery is charged with direct radiant energy. Now that you mention that the primary battery received some radiant energy as well, my question is: why can’t they be switched?
-In the above mentioned DVDs, when John talks about that you cannot swap the primary and secondary battery just like that (without emptying out both batteries), he also mentions that if you want to swap them, you need to run the energy of battery B through an “Inverter” (still talking about a SG without a separate capacitor load circuit). Now in my understanding an “Inverter” converts DC to AC or visa versa. I reckon that the SG would not run correctly with an AC input signal. Is John using here the term “Inverter” while actually referring to something else, or am I missing/misunderstanding something here?
-With the SG built up to the stage where you have it (completed the 3rd Manual), can you swap primary and secondary batteries? In other words, this separate capacitor loading circuit, does it act in a way that when you swap the batteries you don’t emptying them out?

Discharging/charge cycle:
I put a 20-Ohms resistor in my discharge circuit (20.2-Ohm measured on my Fluke 115), that brings it more or less at the C20 discharge scale as you mentioned (0.6A). The last couple of days I ran a couple of charge/discharge tests with this new setup, only discharging the battery to 12.69V: that was where it ended up with a set discharge time of 1.67hours = +/- 100minutes. The graphs are included in this post as attachments.
A little bit of background information on the charge/discharge cycles (see PDF enclosed):
D8 2020-jan-01 17:27 / Discharge 12Ah battery @ +/- C20 rate:
The last time I charged the battery with the SG before this discharge cycle was on 22 december 2019, charging it up all the way to 16.22V. As mentioned, this D8 discharge cycle set the voltage level (12.69V) which I used as a the point to stop the next discharge cycles.

Note that D9, C9, D10, C10 are all done in one day, with letting the battery rest always at least an hour in between.

If you compare this D8 cycle with D9 and D10, you see that it took way longer to discharge the battery the first time ( D8 100mins), than the second (D9 46min) or the third (D10 70min). Why is this? I would have expected the opposite effect. This does not make any sense to me.

So in the charge cycles (C8, C9, C10) I charged up to 15.3V as you told me. But as mentioned before, on 22 December charged it all the way up to 16.22V (accidentally, because I was out of the door for a bit). So my question is, should I not always charging it up that far?

Measuring Ah
You said:
“The idea is to measure the AH you remove from a full charged battery and then see how many AH the SSG uses to full recharge it.”
For the output battery I intended to (roughly) calculate the energy discharged by the battery in my discharged circuit: I have the Voltage graph. That in combination with the fixed resistance (20.2-Ohm), I can calculate that.
On the input the calculation will be less accurate: I can log the voltage of the input battery as well, but instead of the resistance, I guess I would need to take occasional amperage readings in the way you described and calculate the energy input based on those.
Do you agree with this method, or was there a specific reason why you think I should calculate/compare Ah? Is there an easier way to calculate Ah, as the method I described above for the used energy? E.G. is there a direct/hard relation between the voltage level and the Ah’s used/still in a battery? Using the Voltage level of the battery as an input only to determine the state of charge of the battery would make everything easier…

Greetings,
Rodolphe
2020-01-03 charge, discharge graphs.pdf

#1
I know John used to say that a radiantly charged battery shouldn't be used to drive the SSG machine, but would run lights or an inverter just fine. This implied that you couldn't just keep swapping two batteries back and forth between the run and charge positions unless they were either charged with a capacitor or common ground setup and not radiantly. I also heard him say as much at some of the conferences. So at the last conference where Peter Lindemann demonstrated how John charged multiple batteries in parallel by swapping one of the parallel batteries back and forth with one other battery between the run and charge position, Peter was doing it while running in radiant mode. When John did this, he was using an isolated winding on the coil and running the output through a mechanically triggered capacitor discharge circuit which is a little different. So I questioned Peter about swapping the same two radiantly charged batteries between the run and charge positions over and over. He said that when he and John were running the 10 coiler and then later in testing when they developed the battery chargers they did this all the time. It was Peter's contention that the only problem with a radiantly charged battery was that it didn't like being charged any more with a conventional "HOT" charger. It would somehow become conditioned to the radiant charging method and need to be fully discharged before accepting a "HOT" charge.

I've built several SSG machines and have swapped batteries back and forth between run and charge positions with no problems regardless of whether it runs in radiant mode, common ground mode, or cap discharge mode. These batteries also charge well with any of the Bedini chargers I have. But I never use any "HOT" chargers at all anymore.

#2

Now that you mention that the primary battery received some radiant energy as well, my question is: why can’t they be switched?

I have a sniffer coil that can be hooked to my O-scope and placed next to the leads on either the output or the input while the machine is running and it shows a definite voltage spike on either lead when the radiant event occurs. It's the same looking spike but with reversed polarity and a little less amplitude on the input leads. And if you monitor across the transistor with the other channel of the scope the spikes all appear at the same time. It also appears across the trigger winding as well.

#3
Sorry but your attachments still don't show up for me, but based on your comments you are discharging to a given voltage rather than using a given time at a given rate of discharge. You need to start with a fully charged battery and then discharge it for a given time (like 100 minutes) at a given rate like 600 ma measured on an ammeter. I use a Radio Mountain CBA for this as it regulates the current exactly as the voltage drops and gives a readout of actual amp hours delivered by the battery. After a short rest you then recharge it with the SSG starting with a fully charged run battery and see how long it takes to bring the test battery back up to 15.3 volts under charge, and how much current the SSG is pulling from the run battery. Then compare the amp hours it takes to recharge, to the amp hours you pulled out of the test battery when you discharged it. .........discharge AH/recharge AH = ? ....... In radiant mode if you get over 50% it's doing pretty good. In common ground (generator) mode it can go over 100%.

#4
Occasionally overcharging in radiant mode isn't going to hurt the battery, but it does waste energy and cause some extra off gassing. When it gets to 15.3 volts it's fully recharged and is at the proper point to check the recharge time for calculating the amp hours.

#5

If you compare this D8 cycle with D9 and D10, you see that it took way longer to discharge the battery the first time ( D8 100mins), than the second (D9 46min) or the third (D10 70min). Why is this? I would have expected the opposite effect. This does not make any sense to me.

The discharge time to a given voltage will vary according to the initial starting voltage. And with a set resistor, the average discharge current will also vary with initial starting voltage. Each discharge cycle should be from a fully charged battery after a given period of rest after the charging cycle, And the current draw should always be at the same rate each discharge cycle. This establishes a baseline number of amp hours to compare to the amp hours it takes to recharge it on the SSG.

Gary Hammond,

[pearldragon]

Hi Gary,

Hereby I post some more discharge/charge graphs, all done in 1 day: January 4th, 2020.

Best regards,
Rodolphe

[pearldragon]

Hi Dave, Gary,

I yesterday tried to post a response to you Gary, including charge/discharge graphs with the input you gave. I received a message that it awaits approval from a moderator so I hope it will show up here soon.

@Dave,
Thanks for your input / recommendations.

When you talk about the AC signal, you’re talking about the signal/images as shown in the attachment of my post #196?

At the moment I’m not familiar with the Window or ZFM motor. I’m just trying to build the SG according to the manuals of Peter Lindemann and Aaron Murakami. The coil/bobbin I use in my SG is a prefabbed and supplied by TeslaGenX: http://www.teslagenx.com/parts/tx-co...category=parts. 7x20AWG+1x23AWG 130' <- That is the one I have. The specs you gave are very different from the TeslaGenX Coil. I would be very keen to experiment with it, especially if you say you go from Amps as input to mAmps, but for now I think I should stick to the manual: My understanding of the machine is still limited / still have a lot of questions, if I deviate from the manuals at this point I will have even more questions / understand less of it that I do already��. I still need to finish the 2nd and 3rd manual.

Regards,
Rodolphe

[pearldragon]

Hi Gary, Hi Dave,

First off all happy new year to you and the other folks here on the forum!

Dave, I will come back to your post later on; need to read it more carefully to make sure I understand it all. And this story to Gary is already a small booklet on its own

@Gary,
Thanks for your explanation about the difference between using a power supply or a battery at the input. I understand most of what you say. I plan to buy a battery for the input, but for now I just wanted to focus on the output/secondary battery first, make sure that what comes out there is in the ball park before swapping the power supply for a battery.

But there is one thing in particular in your comments about having the battery at the input that I do have some questions about. You say that the battery at the primary battery will also receive some radiant voltage.
My questions regarding that statement are as follows:
-As well in DVD 6 (Radiant energy, @+/- 2min) as in DVD 24 (Bedini Monopole masterclass I, @+/-49min) John mentions specifically that you cannot swap the input and the output battery, since the form of energy is different (taking into account that he is talking about a SG that has NOT yet a separate capacitor load circuit like in the second half of the Intermediate Manual). I thought I understood this somewhat with the fact that the secondary battery is charged with direct radiant energy. Now that you mention that the primary battery received some radiant energy as well, my question is: why can’t they be switched?
-In the above mentioned DVDs, when John talks about that you cannot swap the primary and secondary battery just like that (without emptying out both batteries), he also mentions that if you want to swap them, you need to run the energy of battery B through an “Inverter” (still talking about a SG without a separate capacitor load circuit). Now in my understanding an “Inverter” converts DC to AC or visa versa. I reckon that the SG would not run correctly with an AC input signal. Is John using here the term “Inverter” while actually referring to something else, or am I missing/misunderstanding something here?
-With the SG built up to the stage where you have it (completed the 3rd Manual), can you swap primary and secondary batteries? In other words, this separate capacitor loading circuit, does it act in a way that when you swap the batteries you don’t emptying them out?

Discharging/charge cycle:
I put a 20-Ohms resistor in my discharge circuit (20.2-Ohm measured on my Fluke 115), that brings it more or less at the C20 discharge scale as you mentioned (0.6A). The last couple of days I ran a couple of charge/discharge tests with this new setup, only discharging the battery to 12.69V: that was where it ended up with a set discharge time of 1.67hours = +/- 100minutes. The graphs are included in this post as attachments.
A little bit of background information on the charge/discharge cycles (see PDF enclosed):
D8 2020-jan-01 17:27 / Discharge 12Ah battery @ +/- C20 rate:
The last time I charged the battery with the SG before this discharge cycle was on 22 december 2019, charging it up all the way to 16.22V. As mentioned, this D8 discharge cycle set the voltage level (12.69V) which I used as a the point to stop the next discharge cycles.

Note that D9, C9, D10, C10 are all done in one day, with letting the battery rest always at least an hour in between.

If you compare this D8 cycle with D9 and D10, you see that it took way longer to discharge the battery the first time ( D8 100mins), than the second (D9 46min) or the third (D10 70min). Why is this? I would have expected the opposite effect. This does not make any sense to me.

So in the charge cycles (C8, C9, C10) I charged up to 15.3V as you told me. But as mentioned before, on 22 December charged it all the way up to 16.22V (accidentally, because I was out of the door for a bit). So my question is, should I not always charging it up that far?

Measuring Ah
You said:
“The idea is to measure the AH you remove from a full charged battery and then see how many AH the SSG uses to full recharge it.”
For the output battery I intended to (roughly) calculate the energy discharged by the battery in my discharged circuit: I have the Voltage graph. That in combination with the fixed resistance (20.2-Ohm), I can calculate that.
On the input the calculation will be less accurate: I can log the voltage of the input battery as well, but instead of the resistance, I guess I would need to take occasional amperage readings in the way you described and calculate the energy input based on those.
Do you agree with this method, or was there a specific reason why you think I should calculate/compare Ah? Is there an easier way to calculate Ah, as the method I described above for the used energy? E.G. is there a direct/hard relation between the voltage level and the Ah’s used/still in a battery? Using the Voltage level of the battery as an input only to determine the state of charge of the battery would make everything easier…

Greetings,
Rodolphe

[Dave Wing]

Hi Gary, Aaron,

Thanks for your replies. Since There is a some overlap in your responses to my questions and the new questions I have, I’ll try to reply/question you both at once . I hope I do not confuse you too much with it.

@Gary, I think I need to hook up my scope again to my machine and go over some of the answers you gave me to understand them correctly. Will come back on them once I’ve done that, but should hook up my rpm sensor first…

General note:
If I click on the images from my previous posts, I see that they are very small, not sure why they came out that way, does the forum shrink them? Will try to upload PDFs this time, if that doesn’t work, will try images again.

Aaron
At this moment I’ve followed the manuals up to page 13 of the second (intermediate) handbook. So for the resistances I have the 100Ohm (matched) resistors in and the 1k Ohm potentiometer (see attachment 1). The reason why I stopped here is that I wanted to build in a speed/rpm sensor, so I can tune it properly, rather than just by listening (sound of machine reving up/reving down). As soon as I have the speed sensor installed and operational I’ll tune it properly and report back here with what value I ended up with on my pot-meter and input amperage/voltage.

Aaron/Gary
Another question that came to mind; I guess the double firing would be a welcome phenomenon, getting two for the price of one. Or is this a misunderstanding of what’s happening? In other words, will the voltage peaks be half as high as well for example?

Aaron/Gary
Gary you writes that the field strength is strongest at the edges of the magnets. If this is true then in theory I would guess the machine would always fire double. This because the magnetic field strength in the middle of the magnet would be a bit less than at the edges, so the trigger coil goes by two peaks when passing one magnet, hence firing twice. Although I could also image that these peaks where so close (being on the edges on one small magnet), that the machine would not have enough time to “breath” for a double firing, but the fact that it does double fire as can be seen on the scope gives me the impression that this little “breathing room” is not an issue.
But maybe I’m going too far astray in my own imagination, Aaron mentioned that it probably has to do with a base resistance that is too high. Maybe Aaron you can explain me a bit more how the base resistance can be a cause for double firing?

Aaron / Gary,
In the beginners manual, page 70 & 72 (see attachment 2) I read about the switching when the magnet is right above the coil, implying that the magnet field is strongest there. This in opposition to what I understand from Gary that it is strongest at the edges. Should I interpreted this as that the handbook talks about a simplified theoretical situation to understand the basics while Gary talks about the real/practical situation?

Gary
When you say that your machine double fires at 211RPM. Do you mean that by reving up to your machine’s max rpm, it passes a point at 211rpm where it temporary fires double, but at its max rpm it does singe shots? Or do you mean that your machine runs at max rpm at 211rpm, so it always fires double, and you might have too high of a base resistance?

Aaron
“You mention the sequential mechanics of repulsion mode switch” I assume you’re referring to my first post (#196), attachment “2019-02-27 - Attachment 1”?
If so, I just saw that the arrows were going in the wrong direction (text was correct), they might have caused confusion. Please see attachment 3 in this post where I removed the arrows. Just to double check we’re on the same page; I intended to speak here about the ATTRACTION mode, as mentioned in your first (Beginners) handbook, page 72 (version 1.13).
Regarding your question what switches on the base to turn on the Main circuit in both modes:
As you mentioned, in REPULSION mode it is the decrease in magnetic field strength when a magnet moves away from the core.
In ATTRACTION mode it is the increase in magnetic field strength when the magnet moves towards the core.
I was curious why in the repulsion mode the transistors need heat-sinks and not in the attraction mode. Reading the bottom of page 73 of the Beginners manual again, I guess it relates to point 1.? That in repulsion mode the battery help in switching the magnetic field in the main coil, and that somehow this process also causes more heat in the transistors?

Thanks,
Rodolphe
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When it comes to the SSG machine, the machine is an Energizer which is motor generator, a pulsed DC motor combined with AC generator function. You want to tune the machine to one pulse this will maximize the rotor speed and increase AC generator output. The higher the rpm the less current the machine draws, in part, because of the AC wave form produced. The negative AC wave form half is hidden from view when the transistor turns on and the positive AC wave form half can be seen alongside the spike if you have an oscilloscope.

Maximize the AC waveform and you will be on your way to understanding the machine, you want to decrease wire diameter, vastly increase wire length and put multiple strands together. Wind 10-15 strands of 30AWG at 1000’ on a 3-1/2” coil bobbin with the standard 3/4” bore. This will strangle the current (you will go from amps to milli amps) on your current draw while greatly increasing your magnetic field strength of your coil. This works for the window motor, ZFM, etc.

If the AC waveform is not being clipped by both the primary and the secondary battery, the windings are not long enough to generate at that particular rpm. You then must increase strand length to generate higher AC wave peaks. These two areas, magnetic field strength and AC voltage production are what is required for a machine that performs.
One more thing we need mass on these pulse motors so put a 20 pound flywheel on your bike wheel. And the switching to be 50% on time and 50% off time, just like the 1984 Bedini free energy generator.

Dave Wing

[Gary Hammond]

Hi Rodolphe,

A battery is a much lower impedance device than a power supply. Lets assume your SSG has a 20% duty cycle with an average measured current draw of 1 ampere. This means that it is drawing 1/20% = 5 amp pulses each time it fires. This is no problem for the battery because it's impedance is very low. A power supply, on the other hand, will struggle to produce this current pulse and will have an attendant voltage drop in it's transformer each time the transistor conducts. A very large filter capacitor on/in the power supply will help, but the performance will always be better with a fully charged good battery of sufficient size. Another advantage the battery has is that it will receive some of the radiant voltage and run down more slowly that it would with a purely resistive load. The power supply won't accept any of this radiant voltage.

You need to start out with all batteries fully charged. On an AGM that is usually around 13 volts at rest. Under a 1 amp load the primary battery will show from 12.6 to 12.7 volts at first and should run down very slowly. The charge (secondary) battery should first be discharged at the c20 rate for however long it takes to remove 1 AH. For a 12 AH battery that would be 600 ma for 1.67 hours. Do this and let it rest for about another hour before you begin charging it. It's standing voltage will probably recover to around 12.9 volts while resting.

Run the SSG until the charge battery reaches 15.3 volts under charge. This is the finish point that indicates full charge. Note the time it takes to recharge and take occasional current draw readings from the primary by switching an ammeter into and out of the primary circuit while it's running. Don't let the current go through the ammeter all the time as this will lower the results you get. Use a switch across the ammeter to short it out except to take an occasional reading.

Discharging the battery to 9.6 volts at a c2 rate is the wrong thing to do and will damage the battery. It shouldn't be discharged below 10.6 volts minimum and not over the c20 rate!

You should be working in the top of the battery's capacity range, ie between 10 and 12 AH to see the best results from the SSG. The more you take out of the battery, the longer it will take to recharge it! The idea is to measure the AH you remove from a full charged battery and then see how many AH the SSG uses to full recharge it. If you completely discharge the battery, it will take a very long time to recharge it with the SSG.

And yes, it would take my SSG at least 6 hours in generator mode to fully recharge a 12 AH battery that was completely run down. This is not a good way to use the system.

[pearldragon]

Hi Gary, RS,
Thanks for your quick replies.

@Gary,
The reason to start out with a power supply on the input, was that I intended to make a comparison between how much energy I would get out of the battery if I would charge it with a conventional charger, or with my SG. For this comparison I was not so interested in what happened at the input of my SG and besides I wanted to have the same input every time, rather than an input battery(s) that would be at different charge levels every time I start the SG.

My idea was to charge the battery with the conventional charger, and then drain the battery via my discharge circuit/assembly while logging the discharge process. This charge/discharge cycle I did 5 times.
So yesterday I switched to the SG: Loaded the battery once with it (until 13.46V). Today I discharged the battery and after letting is rest for almost an hour started the 2nd load cycle with my SG (still running, currently at 13.2V).

Just for the purpose of these tests, could I continue with my power supply? Or could you explain why you do not recommend it? It is a variable power supply, so if you say that the 12.3V (@0.81A) is too low, could you tell me how far I could/should crank the voltage up (and/or which is the max amperage)?
I do intent to switch to batteries as an input during further stages of development of my SG.

At the moment my battery discharged at an amperage between +/-7.5A (when discharge starts) and 5.5A (at the end of the discharge), with a drop off voltage of 9.6V. I realized that by draining the battery this quick it might not have a long life time, but I did not want these tests to take forever. So I asked the manufacturer if at this discharge rate I would get at least a 100 charge/discharge cycles out of it, and they confirmed that it will (I do not intent to do 100 charge/discharge cycles ). If I would discharge at 1 amp, it would take probably take more than 7 hours to drain the battery. If the life span of this first “test” battery is not so much my concern at this point, is there any reason why I should not continue draining it at my current rate (so I can do a charge & discharge cycle during 1 day)?

So do I understand correctly, that in common ground mode, your SG would still take 30min x 12Ah = 6 hours to charge my battery?

I did watch some of Peter L’s videos already where he was demonstrating these radiant-/ common ground modes, also mentioning the thick cables. My wires on the output side, from my SG to the battery are 10 AWG (but they are brass 1050 strands wire instead of copper stranded wire…)

@RS
I did read about the preference of the lead-acid batteries on page 35 of the beginners manual, but the reason for it stated there, is lesser chance of damaging them. Since during the setup/tuning of my SG I used an almost death battery, I wasn’t so afraid of killing the AGM battery, furthermore with my intention of doing discharge cycles/tests, I wanted a deep cycle battery. This one had the right specs, incl. spec sheet information for discharging and the Ah range that I was looking for. Hence this choice.