First Run Data. COP 23.7244

[PublicAffair]

Hi guys!

I've gotten the Complete Beginner Ebook and have built based on 8 (23 26awg) 45m filiar coil. Old 22" Aluminum bike wheel. I'm using a conventionally charged sealed lead-acid 12V 1.3Ah as the primary and same 12V 1.3Ah for the charging battery. Both are new!
The thing is that by using 1ohm resistor series to the primary battery, the SG is drawing only 0.17mA to run and its at approx 89rpm (Usually 150rpm) . My system by calculations as per how Aaron did he table and calculations it turned out to be COP 23.7244!!

I first discharged at C20 with 230ohms for the charging (New) batteries to 12v and the charged with the SG for 36mins with the 1.3ohm resistor in series of + terminal of the primary battery. I then discharged the battery back to 12v with a duration of 49mins. The data as per follows:

Input (Highest input total watt sec)
Time(s) Batt (V) Resistor(V) Resistor(ohm) Current(A) Power (W) Duty Cycle Watt Sec/Sec Watt Sec/Min Run Time Total Watt sec
510 12.74 0.179 1.3 0.0001758 0.002239692 100.00% 0.002239692 1.75420 36 63.1512

Output (Lowest Output total watt sec)
2940 12.00 12.00 230 0.0424667 0.5096 100% 0.5096 30.576024 49 1498.225

1498.225/63.1512 = 23.7244

Is there something wrong? Cuz i've tested with other 12v batteries and they all draw the same range of small current across the 1.3ohm resistor!

(Batteries connected are 7Ah in the picture)

I'd really appreciate if anyone could point out if i have connected my resistor wrongly or some mistakes that could have led to these factors! Do let me know what additional info you guys will need!

Regards
Fox

[Tom C]

Hi guys!

I've gotten the Complete Beginner Ebook and have built based on 8 (23 26awg) 45m filiar coil. Old 22" Aluminum bike wheel. I'm using a conventionally charged sealed lead-acid 12V 1.3Ah as the primary and same 12V 1.3Ah for the charging battery. Both are new!
The thing is that by using 1ohm resistor series to the primary battery, the SG is drawing only 0.17mA to run and its at approx 89rpm (Usually 150rpm) . My system by calculations as per how Aaron did he table and calculations it turned out to be COP 23.7244!!

I first discharged at C20 with 230ohms for the charging (New) batteries to 12v and the charged with the SG for 36mins with the 1.3ohm resistor in series of + terminal of the primary battery. I then discharged the battery back to 12v with a duration of 49mins. The data as per follows:

Input (Highest input total watt sec)
Time(s) Batt (V) Resistor(V) Resistor(ohm) Current(A) Power (W) Duty Cycle Watt Sec/Sec Watt Sec/Min Run Time Total Watt sec
510 12.74 0.179 1.3 0.0001758 0.002239692 100.00% 0.002239692 1.75420 36 63.1512

Output (Lowest Output total watt sec)
2940 12.00 12.00 230 0.0424667 0.5096 100% 0.5096 30.576024 49 1498.225

1498.225/63.1512 = 23.7244

Is there something wrong? Cuz i've tested with other 12v batteries and they all draw the same range of small current across the 1.3ohm resistor!

[ATTACH=CONFIG]1439[/ATTACH] (Batteries connected are 7Ah in the picture)

I'd really appreciate if anyone could point out if i have connected my resistor wrongly or some mistakes that could have led to these factors! Do let me know what additional info you guys will need!

Regards
Fox

you are not supposed to leave the resistor in the circuit. take it out. all you were doing was measuring voltage drop to see what current you were drawing....... thats what I think you are asking.

if you are talking about the one ohm "test" then that is where you REPLACE the charge battery with the resistor to see if it heats up. when it does not that tells you it is a currentless charge.

even a 1 ohm resistor will reduce your current draw a bit, its like a speed bump for the electrons... and those little batteries have much less potential in them. think about a big bucket and a little bucket with water in it, which one has more potential?


Tom C

[PublicAffair]

Hi Tom,

Hmm i get what u meant, oh ok thats stupid of me HAHA!! i think i got it! Thanks!
Sorry for askin such questions! I'm more of the mechanical engineering, thus such inexperience! This is the first time i do a circuit board too! I really appreciate your patience. Thanks Tom!

Regards
Fox

[Tom C]

you are welcome, I was not sure if I completely misunderstood you, or if I helped

Tom C

[PublicAffair]

Hi Tom,

You helped! haha! i was using the current reading across the resistor instead of taking the the voltage drop to calculate the current which the value now made a lot more sense haha!
I'm now running my new cycle without the 1 ohm resistor! Will post up the data after its done!

Thanks a lot Tom!

Cheers
Fox

[PublicAffair]

Hi guys!

I got another problem! My charging battery was 13.4v before i left for sleep, its weird that it became 12.43v when i woke up and it just gets stuck there. is the battery shorted? i think there is a problem right? is there a problem with my sg? cuz i actually have 19 ceramics at about 3" apart on my 22" wheell. could it be due to this? or should i reduce the magnets? Thanks!

i also did a run for the 1.3Ah batts and the volts could not go above 12.97v! and kept decreasing in value

fox

[John_Koorn]

Hi guys!

I got another problem! My charging battery was 13.4v before i left for sleep, its weird that it became 12.43v when i woke up and it just gets stuck there. is the battery shorted? i think there is a problem right? is there a problem with my sg? cuz i actually have 19 ceramics at about 3" apart on my 22" wheell. could it be due to this? or should i reduce the magnets? Thanks!

i also did a run for the 1.3Ah batts and the volts could not go above 12.97v! and kept decreasing in value

fox

Hi Fox,

What was the voltage of your primary battery when you woke up? Was the machine running any slower?

John K.

[PublicAffair]

Hi John,

The charging batt was 13.41v before i slept, and i checked 12.43v after wakin up from 4 hrs sleep. was tired but i didnt have mood to continue my sleep haha!
The wheel was still running as per normal just that the voltage across the charging batt dropped to 12.43v and i left it for 1hr rest. after which i started charging but it still stayed at 12.43v. :/
The primary battery was at 12.57v when i woke up. it was started at resting 13.3v i think before my sleep.

Its a 7Ah battery.

Thanks

Fox

[PublicAffair]

i just tried charging a cal-acid battery 48Ah, was 14.5-15v before i went to sleep! and i woke up to seeing 14.1v! i realised that i think i got 3 neon bulbs busted! could it be because the transistors got fried? the primary battery was at 12.34v when i woke up!

thank you in advance!

fox

[PublicAffair]

hi guys!

just wanna say thanks to all who had read my post and to mr John Bedini, for the book, John K & Tom C for responding!

okay i just realised that the contact solders on the copper strips are very bad thats why 3 of the transistors did not fire up!!
i do know that when the charging battery is disconnected from the output, the neons are supposed to light up right? mine was all glowing orange and then each of them randomly blink to its brightest and then dim back to orange glow at least once per second. is that normal? or is it suppose to go full brightness at the same time? now my sg is blinkin like disco ball man! hahaha!

another question, when i connected my 0.7ohm resistor in series to the primary batt to measure voltage drop across the resistor, the wheel starts to accelerate and my whole sg starts to vibrate, which i believe it is the coil vibrating! is that normal too? my current draw appears to be 0.2A. this looks okay right?

my solders are all fixed already and the sg now is in the workshop resting, and im charging up my primary battery thru my conventional charger before i start the new run pretty excited and cant wait for the next run! hope that i can get

i dont have an oscilloscope too!

thank you in advance!

fox

[Tom C]

hi guys!

just wanna say thanks to all who had read my post and to mr John Bedini, for the book, John K & Tom C for responding!

okay i just realised that the contact solders on the copper strips are very bad thats why 3 of the transistors did not fire up!!
i do know that when the charging battery is disconnected from the output, the neons are supposed to light up right? mine was all glowing orange and then each of them randomly blink to its brightest and then dim back to orange glow at least once per second. is that normal? or is it suppose to go full brightness at the same time? now my sg is blinkin like disco ball man! hahaha!

another question, when i connected my 0.7ohm resistor in series to the primary batt to measure voltage drop across the resistor, the wheel starts to accelerate and my whole sg starts to vibrate, which i believe it is the coil vibrating! is that normal too? my current draw appears to be 0.2A. this looks okay right?

my solders are all fixed already and the sg now is in the workshop resting, and im charging up my primary battery thru my conventional charger before i start the new run pretty excited and cant wait for the next run! hope that i can get

i dont have an oscilloscope too!

thank you in advance!

fox

the neons are a protective device for your trannies and they only work for a quick second. you may have damaged your trannies or at least degraded the junction. what you hope is that you never ever see the neons light up, that means your charge battery is disconnected which means certain doom eventually for your transistors.

Tom C

[PublicAffair]

Hi Tom C,

Thanks for your answer! i think my transistors may be degraded. After realising that it is because of using 7Ah as the primary, the capacity is insufficient to keep the SG at my best RPM, thus i have used the 48Ah cal acid battery as a primary instead to charge my 7Ah battery! My batt COP now is 6.3 on the average on the first 2 cycles!! Im now doing my 3rd discharge! My SG is drawing a current of 0.373A and the input current to the secondary batt is 0.04A. Totally amazing !! Will update on my 8 filar SG when i hit 10 cycles!

Thanks you for your patience with my poor electronics & electrical background!

PS: could you help me change my thread title to "First Run Data. 8 filiar." thanks! i have no idea how to change it!
Regards
Fox

[PublicAffair]

Hi guys,
I am wondering if i am correctly measuring the input amps and the charge amps. Please tell me which method is more accurate or correct!!

1. Connect multimeter set to mA in series between the SG and the battery terminal.
2. Connect a low value ohm resistor in series then measure the voltage drop and then using V=IR to calculate the current draw.

with the first method, i measure my current draw is 0.024A (my batt COP went up to max of 40 and the System COP went up above 1)
with the second method, i calculated a 0.373A draw from my primary battery (for this the batter COP was at max 10 and System COP on average is 0.6)

What's the difference?!? I'd attached my first 4 cycles below!

Thank you guys in advance!

Cycle by Fox.zip

Regards
Fox

[PublicAffair]

Hi guys,
with help from Bro Faraday, i solved most my problems. my problems were:

1. -Bad shape abused car Calcium Lead 48Ah as primary battery that cause charging time of 7Ah batt to hit 16-20hrs. and also when did not give the 48Ah any rest between charging and discharging which had further degraded the battery charging the 7Ah to at most 12.5v and then stays at that value for another 2 hrs.
-The voltage was always at 9v when the SSG is running and realised that sometimes when it fluctuates to 11.8v, the charging got much faster. so i figured it would be the battery problem! (oh god i'm so nooooob!)
-So i got this new SLA 26Ah as my primary and the charging duration now range 4-5hrs from 11.8v-12v to 14.5v. i ran a new set of data sheet now at 4th cycle again! The battery COP now range from 4.7 to 6.7! and system COP now range 1.9 - 3.2. My voltage spike also increased 236v (when the 48Ah was running at 11.8v) to 260v! hehe! (Bought a new ossy!) There is a certain proportional of voltage between the input and output spike, when the old 48Ah was at 9v, it only spike a 110v.




2. My DMMs had some error values in some way, probably cuz i did not check the terminals and wired it wrongly thus such inaccuracy and blown the fuses! My 8 filar is now drawing 0.244A and giving 0.116A to charging battery by the use of resistors and ohms law! My neons started lighting up when i attached a WRONG (AC) Ammeter (Stupid, bought wrong one!! )


3. Previously my soldering contacts from wire to the copper strips are very poor, i thought nice round ball shaped solder is good! yes! aesthetically nice but poor electrical contact! thus i double but the solder amount and sanded the strip surface for a better grip after the solder starts flowing (now i know why PCB needs solder reflow process from the textbook). I first thought the transistors were dead or something.



The below attached is my data for 4 cycles, for reference if anyone runs into any problem that I'd faced (not likely anyone is as bad as me). I hope this will help anyone who has no electrical and electronics background like myself!


Conclusion:
Indeed batteries are the one of the most important component in this technology! I've learnt so much electrical and electronic stuff from this project as a mechanical eng college student (hard but well spent time!)!



Cycle by Fox (2).zip



PS: can anyone teach me how to edit thread title?!

My appreciation goes out to all who helped me!

Regards
Fox

[lis_wang]

Hi guys,
with help from Bro Faraday, i solved most my problems. my problems were:

1. -Bad shape abused car Calcium Lead 48Ah as primary battery that cause charging time of 7Ah batt to hit 16-20hrs. and also when did not give the 48Ah any rest between charging and discharging which had further degraded the battery charging the 7Ah to at most 12.5v and then stays at that value for another 2 hrs.
-The voltage was always at 9v when the SSG is running and realised that sometimes when it fluctuates to 11.8v, the charging got much faster. so i figured it would be the battery problem! (oh god i'm so nooooob!)
-So i got this new SLA 26Ah as my primary and the charging duration now range 4-5hrs from 11.8v-12v to 14.5v. i ran a new set of data sheet now at 4th cycle again! The battery COP now range from 4.7 to 6.7! and system COP now range 1.9 - 3.2. My voltage spike also increased 236v (when the 48Ah was running at 11.8v) to 260v! hehe! (Bought a new ossy!) There is a certain proportional of voltage between the input and output spike, when the old 48Ah was at 9v, it only spike a 110v.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]1563[/ATTACH]


2. My DMMs had some error values in some way, probably cuz i did not check the terminals and wired it wrongly thus such inaccuracy and blown the fuses! My 8 filar is now drawing 0.244A and giving 0.116A to charging battery by the use of resistors and ohms law! My neons started lighting up when i attached a WRONG (AC) Ammeter (Stupid, bought wrong one!! )


3. Previously my soldering contacts from wire to the copper strips are very poor, i thought nice round ball shaped solder is good! yes! aesthetically nice but poor electrical contact! thus i double but the solder amount and sanded the strip surface for a better grip after the solder starts flowing (now i know why PCB needs solder reflow process from the textbook). I first thought the transistors were dead or something.



The below attached is my data for 4 cycles, for reference if anyone runs into any problem that I'd faced (not likely anyone is as bad as me). I hope this will help anyone who has no electrical and electronics background like myself!


Conclusion:
Indeed batteries are the one of the most important component in this technology! I've learnt so much electrical and electronic stuff from this project as a mechanical eng college student (hard but well spent time!)!



[ATTACH]1562[/ATTACH]



PS: can anyone teach me how to edit thread title?!

My appreciation goes out to all who helped me!

Regards
Fox

Hi, Fox

I am also a mechanical people and have a litter bit electric knowledge. May I ask you a few question about the data in your excel sheet.

1. Did you measure the Primary Draw Amps and Charge Input Amps by connecting two ammeters in series with charging battery and primary battery?
2. Is the Charge Term. Voltage meaning the charging battery voltage when the SSG just completed the runnng? In the "instruction" what is meaning of "Charge to 14.5V or the voltage recommended by battery manufacturer."
3. Your resting time are differet for all the 20 runs. So your measurements of End Resting Voltage are not consistent.
4. How did you discharge your battery? What resistance you are using? How to calculate the discharging time if you use C20 discharge rate?
5. Did you measure Load Term. Voltage by measure the voltage across the resistor when the battery was discharging?
6. Your battery resting time for discharging for all the 20 runs were different also, is there any problem?

Thank you for spending your time to answer my questions.