Trick of COP calculation

[knagtegl]

freeenergy,

Just a few runs and it was already at about 10 amps back online on a 60 A/h, I will keep on doing runs to see where it will go.
It does not go up fast but it is still increasing.

Karel

[freeenergy]

You misunderstood the intention of the COP spreadsheet. It was designed to prove that the is something else besides the conventional electricity that is charging the charge battery only!

John K.

Dear John

In COP table, when I terminate the discharging battery, shall I use 12.2V as benchmark to or use 10% DOD as benchmark?

Now I charged my battery (12V, 7.2AH) to 15.37V (SSG running value) already and I will continue the charging until the charging battery reach 16.2V.

Best Regards

[freeenergy]

1- your junk battery will not go that hi probably, on the SG it will stop where the sulfation will no longer come off the plates. i did not expect to see improvement of your battery at all given how it has been treated. stop wasting your time with that thing. if you want to desuphate it crank the current up on the primary and blow the sulfation off the plates. its the pulse that cleans the plates and dissolves the sulfation. you will not have over unity at ALL but your capacity may come back, maybe !! you cannot expect increased capacity or faster charging with a junk battery.

2- do you have the manufacturers specs for your battery? read them and use them as a basline for YOUR battery. 14.5 is the charge termination voltage usually from the manufacturer but it VARIES by manufacturer. your batteries might be good at 15.3 not 16.2 as John K has said. its DIFFERENT for every battery. Peters batteries were deep cycle Golf kart style 6 volt cells.

3- by running a battery charged to 13.2 on my CBA and comparing it to what its capacity should be. often times a battery will sit at 13.2 for a very long time as it fills up. you need to research charge curves for batteries to see what they look like.

its all about the battery....... the machine performs based upon what it is hooked to, its not magic. learn the theory of operation, then learn about lead acid batteries and then you will answer for yourself your questions, it will be obvious why the battery wont charge up fully.

Tom C

Dear Tom

I have completed my 12th charging. It takes about 33 hours. When my SSG runs, I measured the voltage and found it started to drop to 15.71V after it reached 16.17V. So I disconnected the primary battery. When the wheel completely stopped, charging battery dropped to 13.92V. I believed it was fully charged as I read the specification of 12V LBA (I cannot find the specification for the battery I charged), fully charged voltage is 12.65V (please see the attachment I found from google) and during SSG running, my charging battery's maximum voltage reached 16.17V and after that dropped. The beginners' manual (pg78 and pg79) stated that when battery's voltage reaches 16V (P point), no more sulfate ions left in the plates.

I will discharge it to 12.2V and see the COP value. By the way, the COP value will be different if I discharge to 12.2V and 12V as the Discharge Output Joules will be different. How did you set the benchmark of discharging when you calculate COP?

Thanks

[freeenergy]

You misunderstood the intention of the COP spreadsheet. It was designed to prove that the is something else besides the conventional electricity that is charging the charge battery only!

John K.

Dear John

I have following suggestions regarding the battery COP calculation in your COP table:

1. The Charging Time must be based on the battery is 100% fully charged (stop SSG when charging battery just reach 16V).
2. The Discharge Time must be based the battery 100% fully discharge (discharge to 10.5V). Although fully charge battery kills the battery, I think it should be all right if we just fully discharge one or two times. The reason I suggest this way is because when people calculate the COP, they must compare the same SOC (100%) and DOD (100%). When DOD is different, Discharge Output Joules will be different. If we charge 100% and discharge only 10%, then COP must be less than 1. If we charged to 50% and discharged 60%, then the COP should be more than 1. If we do not set the same SOC and DOD, it will not be convincing to claim that radiant energy charge battery just based on COP alone.

Last night I used CBAIII to discharge my battery (1 hour after fully charged by SSG) to 12.2V, COP is only 0.72. I believe if I discharged to 12V, the COP will be higher than 0.72.

Another problem I found is the Charge Input Amps. When the battery is charged, the input current reduced with increasing voltage. So I did not remove Ampmeters. I took the Amp reading every 1 hour and then average it to get Charge Input Amps.

I hope I can have your feedback.

Thanks&Rds

[freeenergy]

you can discharge to whatever you want..... its your battery you are destroying. the CBAIII has no idea what the cutoff should be. I have a cba IIII it has all the variable for discharge. I suggest you contact the battery manufacturer and ask them what the cutoff voltage should be. you are destroying your battery. of course it matters if your battery is junk when doing sg cycles!!. if you are rejuvenating that battery, then a charge discharge cycle is all you need, no cop calculations. rejuvenation is not over unity, ever!! you will not get hi cops with a junk battery, all the energy is being used to desulphate.

you are not fully charging your battery if you are only going to 13.2 thats only about 65 percent. the fully charged cutoff voltage for a battery is around 14.5 if you read the manufacturers spec of most batteries. peter lindemann in his battery secrets lecture talks about how he likes to see them at 16.2 because that is where ALL the material is returned to the plates where it belongs and where the battery simply becomes a hydrogen generator. you are wasting time trying to rejuvenate it if you are discharging to 10.5 that is undoing anythng the SG may be doing to restore the battery. 80% depth of discharge is the max you want to run a lead acid battery at which is between 12.2 and 12 volts. batteries are like a living plant you gotta tend to them the way they are designed or they will die. you wil be frustrated with your results if you dont learn about the battery first. use the go advanced button when you post to attach something.

Tom C

Dear Tom

When you said 80& of DOD, it means to be discharged 0.8x7.2AH (capacity of battery)=5.76AH out of battery at 0.36A (C20 rate), am I right?

Best Regards

[John_Koorn]

Freeenergy,

the whole idea of the spreadsheet is to measure joules in vs. joules out. That's all.

As long as your charge termination voltages and load termination are consistent across all of your test runs you will get accurate numbers. You can take 10% or 100% DOD, it doesn't matter as long as its consistent.

its just a silly little spreadsheet designed to show you that there is more charging the battery than just the measureable conventional current. No need to over complicate it.

John K.

[Tom C]

Dear Tom

When you said 80& of DOD, it means to be discharged 0.8x7.2AH (capacity of battery)=5.76AH out of battery at 0.36A (C20 rate), am I right?

Best Regards

yes 80% of the batteries capacity. at C20

Tom C

[antiobama]

I am not sure if this is the place or not to introduce Epsom salts to the line. Add a couple teaspoons of Epsom salts to the battery cells and try charging again. This wont help with charging on a conventional charge(although the article said it would) as I've seen but it works on the SG and SSG I've built. I had a winter battery that was empty from a boat charger boiling it out. It showed .08 volts and wouldn't charge on a conventional charger. I filled it up with spring water and no dice. Tried SG no dice. added Epsom salts with SG and it worked fine. I now have a good third battery although I don't have a battery checker it is good enough to turn over my 115hp boat motor for a long time. Another story!

[petemin]

Hello ~!
I would like to ask a stupid question! ~
Why form the power supply voltage is not driven items! ~ Or drive 12V supply voltage is the default
Or drive the power supply voltage is not important?
Thank you to answer! ~

[petemin]

Please say again

I do not understand question

Mike

我的意思是为什么表格里没有驱动电池的电压，表格里是默认的12V的驱动电压还是驱动电压无所 谓？
I mean, why the form is not driven the battery voltage, the form is the default drive voltage of 12V or drive voltage does not matter?