How to Make a Bedini Crystal Battery

[Lidmotor]

Soild Alum Crystal rechargeable cell---kinda worked

@John B. & All

I made a small solid Alum crystal / lead plate cell today like we did with the magnesium and copper. It kinda worked. I formed the plates first and then built the cell with melted Alum and a simple mold.. I could not get it to take a charge unless I got the crystal slighly moist but it did take enough of a charge to run an LED oscillator. It was just something that I have been wanting to try and today was the day.

Lead-Alum --- Solid Crystal rechargeable battery - YouTube

John ----I thought about the waffle iron also for making our own plates. I watched a video today about being very careful not to breath the lead oxide dust. When I get my lead oxide the safety precautions go into high gear. I will probably be doing the work all outside with a good mask on.

Ben ----My last chemistry class was 44 years ago and like you, my mind was on other things back then. I didn't do very well in that subject. I tried again today going over the formula for a regular lead acid battery. I might as well be chinese. I understand the basic concept but the actual chemistry formula ---just leaves me in a foggy valence cloud. Now add in the Alum situation and I'm completely lost.

Les---- All I can really do is report what appears to be happening with my little experiments. John B. is the one with the chemistry answers concerning what is happening in the lead acid battery. If Peter was working on this I'm sure that he would chime in also. Those two guys have a vast experience with the lead acid battery.

Lidmotor

[John_Bedini]

Ben,
All the post are 3 to 4 pages back youtubes.
Don't let it drive you crazy it's just a battery you recovered, Hybrid if you want to call it that. If you test it you will not find very much acid at all. If you look up how Alum is made,
you have just changed the amount of SO4 in the equation not a bad thing as the water is now changed too. Real formula of Alum NH4 Al(SO4)2 12H2O. If you look it can not be made without (SO4) so what was left in the battery is not a problem. Make the Alum stronger you will see. Do not expect the same standing voltage as a real lead Acid battery, it's a much different cell technology. Tomorrow I will cut apart a dry charge 16 amp hr battery never had acid in it. I will make a battery from that.

The two different lead oxides cause that differential so one will gather electrons through the load and change the lead to sulfate to block the flow when it's spent. The reverse charge will force everything to move backwards. During Charge the plates change to PbO2 and Pb, during discharge the two plates change to PbSO4 and PbSO4 so you have no current flow. Most of you taking batteries apart only find good Negative plates. The cell I tested used two of the same plates.
Oh, Peter did chime in three pages back about Alum

[k4zep]

Ben,
All the post are 3 to 4 pages back youtubes.
Don't let it drive you crazy it's just a battery you recovered, Hybrid if you want to call it that. If you test it you will not find very much acid at all. If you look up how Alum is made,
you have just changed the amount of SO4 in the equation not a bad thing as the water is now changed too. Real formula of Alum NH4 Al(SO4)2 12H2O. If you look it can not be made without (SO4) so what was left in the battery is not a problem. Make the Alum stronger you will see. Do not expect the same standing voltage as a real lead Acid battery, it's a much different cell technology. Tomorrow I will cut apart a dry charge 16 amp hr battery never had acid in it. I will make a battery from that.

The two different lead oxides cause that differential so one will gather electrons through the load and change the lead to sulfate to block the flow when it's spent. The reverse charge will force everything to move backwards. During Charge the plates change to PbO2 and Pb, during discharge the two plates change to PbSO4 and PbSO4 so you have no current flow. Most of you taking batteries apart only find good Negative plates. The cell I tested used two of the same plates.
Oh, Peter did chime in three pages back about Alum

Hi John,

Everything you have said about the battery is dead on. It's still just a good battery. Yesterday I did one more test on the battery. I discharged it to almost zero, then placed a clip lead across it. I monitored it with the discharger for about an hour and it stayed around .9VDC with a very curious raggadey waveform, not smooth at all. After that, removed clip lead and battery jumped to about 4.3VDC with no load. Charged it @ 1 Amp till it was @ 8.3 V. Total energy into charge cycle was 20.6 watt hours. Discharged @ 0.5 Amp. to 0.1VDC. Total output from charge was about 16.65 watt hours. It would be real hard to utilize all that energy as voltage levels are very low over part of the range of the cycle but just wanted to see what it could do. Picture of discharge is here.




The short discharge curve on the left is the discharge of the bounce back after sitting 4 hours from the main discharge. It basically had an efficiency of 80% give or take which is pretty darn good.
Today I'm watching Johns Videos. Wife is off visiting daughter for 3 days so this is ideal for research. John, thanks again for taking the time to help those of us with inquisitive minds.

Ben K4ZEP

[k4zep]

Thanks Tom C, Found it.
Ben K4ZEP

[LesK]

Charging with an SSG

Just thought I would show the two batteries one being charged by the other. This morning input is at 8.97v and the charge battery is at 10.57 that has been about a ten hour run so far but I am going to let it go for most of today.

Alum charging with an SSG - YouTube

SDC10595 - YouTube

SDC10596 - YouTube

Les

[LesK]

Oh.... I didn't see post 130

Thanks John B
Les

[John_Bedini]

Ben, @all,
In a way I'm like you I must see what is going on. I chart everything because I do not want any mistakes on the crystal cells. I can not give the formula as I must test more then what everybody thinks. I'm looking for a sustained voltage level since I'm just running oscillators anyway, but I need it to run for many hours, and I'm talking days at a time. I do not care where the energy comes from as long as it is developed by the cell. The Alum technology is far different then what is expected from batteries. Batteries do what they do according to the chemical makeup. The Hydrates work much different with lead, so do not think I do not have sleepless nights either. This goes further then what everybody thinks, it starts with just a simple machine the SG and fixing all the screw ups by my buddy that knew better. The Crystal Battery Technology is just a pre-formed Crystal that can move Ions and electrons and be recharged when using lead. The lead crystal battery has a different make up then the standard lead acid battery, the crystal paste must be placed on the plates for this to work right. The separator must be dipped in the Concentrated Alum solution as that adds the moisture to the hydrates. You can find many hydrates that can be used each one will change the power output of the cell. Some of the chemicals you can not get in the U.S.A or other country's. More graphing must be done to build a very powerful cell. The charge must be fast and the output long in time, and it can be done. When you see in the next video what your being sold as a battery you should understand why it has no life span, just a way to make money, over and over.

[k4zep]

Ben, @all,
In a way I'm like you I must see what is going on. I chart everything because I do not want any mistakes on the crystal cells. I can not give the formula as I must test more then what everybody thinks. I'm looking for a sustained voltage level since I'm just running oscillators anyway, but I need it to run for many hours, and I'm talking days at a time. I do not care where the energy comes from as long as it is developed by the cell. The Alum technology is far different then what is expected from batteries. Batteries do what they do according to the chemical makeup. The Hydrates work much different with lead, so do not think I do not have sleepless nights either. This goes further then what everybody thinks, it starts with just a simple machine the SG and fixing all the screw ups by my buddy that knew better. The Crystal Battery Technology is just a pre-formed Crystal that can move Ions and electrons and be recharged when using lead. The lead crystal battery has a different make up then the standard lead acid battery, the crystal paste must be placed on the plates for this to work right. The separator must be dipped in the Concentrated Alum solution as that adds the moisture to the hydrates. You can find many hydrates that can be used each one will change the power output of the cell. Some of the chemicals you can not get in the U.S.A or other country's. More graphing must be done to build a very powerful cell. The charge must be fast and the output long in time, and it can be done. When you see in the next video what your being sold as a battery you should understand why it has no life span, just a way to make money, over and over.

Thanks John,

I look forward to your next Video! It would seem that you are working forward to a battery that can be charged by ionic flow much more than conventional flow to use with the Radiant chargers. I understand your reluctance to give up all the information you develop with your hard work. The hours and days of testing a new idea works the heck out of you. As soon as you start working with others, the work level compounds as you have to work at both your and their level and that is usually not the same! As I basically don't have a shop (worlds smallest lab) if I start cutting batteries apart to get plates, wife will throw me and my lead out the door as she hates a mess! Ha.....So I'll have to work with what I can. But I still have fun. Your battery with the towel/liquid separator seems to be following a fine line between crystal and liquid. Too little or too much is both bad. Keep at it John, I get immense satisfaction watching your work and videos!and it gets the "idea" factory running.

As a side note, that battery of mine that I have been messing with for the last 2-3 days that has been repeatedly discharged to 0 or almost 0 volts and did cycles in the 8-1VDC area is giving me fits charging it back up to a full charge......I'll let you know what happens.....I noticed that Lidmotor has used melted ALUM in one of his batteries.....just a though, I wonder if ALUM can be polarized across a section with a high voltage when in the liquid state and tend to or act like an electret or a high impedance source of static charge when it crystallizes.

Ben K4ZEP

[ibedonc]

John you ever see that video about the light blub , how it used to last longer and then they got together and said we cannot make them last that long , we need more money !! that is the way it is for everything now

google "The Light Bulb Conspiracy" also is this the lead needed if we want to play with making our own

Lead Oxide Yellow Litharge 99.9% One Pound | eBay

[twalters]

Thank you K4zep, I know about nuts.com, but it did not occur to me to check if they carried Alum,lol

[ibedonc]

look what I found

Negative and Positive Plate Construction - Engineers Edge

[LesK]

Ok, I just finished charging the 22ah alum converted battery with the SSG. I was wondering about the problem of using it on the SSG. We know that does not work well with lead acid but due to the impedance differences is it possible that I could swap these batteries front to back? There was quite a discussion some time back about the resistive vs inductive loads on an SSG charged battery but it would seem this may have changed.
Any thoughts?

Thanks
Les

[Brian McNece]

John B
That Mastech power supply in your videos, what model is that?
Thank you
Brian

[Chuck Hupp]

Brian, they are models HY505EX (50 amp) and the other is HY3080EA (80amp)

Chuck Hupp

John B
That Mastech power supply in your videos, what model is that?
Thank you
Brian

[br0ns0n77]

@ All,
Ok, I guess I must start here and I do not know how long this is going to take me to get you to understand the technology, it's not easy to do or understand. Most here have not worked with batteries as long as I have. Most in the groups accused me of speaking in the third person. Well I am when it comes to the work that I have done in this field. Sorry but I can not talk about the work you have done because I'm not watching you except for what you post. If you do not understand how the person built the clock you will never understand how the gears work.
So, what were talking about here is how I did my work, it has nothing to do with Ego.
On the Earth Lights Forum I have discussed all of this, including Heptahydrates and Hydrates and what they do. The problem was lack of focus by what I call disrupters who start to inject nonsense with things like oil, WD40, detergents, and so on these things do not apply to Crystal Formulas that deal with Hydrates or Heptahydrates and show a lack of understanding on what the subject is. Again I will say it is not easy to do this.

I singed a confidential discloser with Marcus Reid or I would have talked about his Crystal Cell which is still running under constant load and I even put it in front of everybody at the last conference and I will do it again. So you all tell me where the mind block is. You just can't look at something and then refuse to believe it when it's working. Marcus used Aluminum and Copper but that is not all that will work, Lead oxides work far better with Hydrates, Get it, Hydrates. In the Crystal Cell Structure you must lock up the water for the Ions to move through the lattice in the Crystal. Alum, Ammonium Aluminum Sulfate is what? and where is aluminum on the valance chart, and then where is Lead? How many electrons do these things have to give up. What moves the Ions in a Lead battery, what is the SG machine doing to the ions in the battery?, since it's not developing any current what is moving the ions to Charge the battery.
I said many times do not expect the same voltage from Ammonium Aluminum sulfate cells, even with Lead oxides. The Battery will stand much lower in voltage but that does not mean it can not do work. I did the charts to show where the working voltage is, and I said you must design the electronics around the battery your working with.
If I just hand you the formula you will not learn anything in this field. You must do the research and read it out loud to yourself, so you learn. Watching something does not mean you understand because your second guessing on what I used.
When you use Ammonium Aluminum Sulfate in the lead acid battery converted and providing that you do not push 5000 amps to it you will notice the battery stays cold, why is that? What would happen if all the resistors stayed cold in your circuits you build, what would that mean to you?

Hydrates: Hydrates are inorganic salts "containing water molecules combined in a definite ratio as an integral part of the crystal that are either bound to a metal center or that have crystallized with the metal complex. Such hydrates are also said to contain Water of crystallization or water of hydration.
So here is a picture of the bond and the chemical that is produced.

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My educated guess is the lead oxide is what moves the ions and you need the battery to release a CO2 gas (carbon dioxide). So you need alum to be formed with an ingredient that contains carbon and reacts to release the CO2. I know that Aluminum Hydroxide is formed by releasing CO2 when alum is mixed with sodium bicarbonate.