How to Make a Bedini Crystal Battery

[Branch Gordon]

JB-

That looks good, but your math is slightly off on my battery.

.05 * 464 = 23.2 not 232. My voltage drop was actually .03 also as I noticed later when watching the video closely. The camera caught it but I didn't.

So .03 * 464 = 13.92
13.92 / 12.94 = 1.075 internal resistance.

This sound right?

Branch,
Been playing around with a way to make it real easy to find internal R
How about this, it is much easier.
Your Battery:
V Batt= 12.94
V Drop Batt = 12.89
Your resistor 464 Ohms

12.94 - 12.89 = .05
.05 * 464 = 232
232 / 12.94 = 17.9 Ohms internal R


My Battery
12.00 -10.50 = 1.5V
1.5 * 12 Ohms = 18
18 / 12.00 = 1.5 Ohms Internal R

My Lead Acid Motor Cycle Battery
12.65 - 12.63 = .02
.02 * 12 Ohms = .24
.24 / 12.65 = .018 Ohms internal R

My Crystal Cell (Mag /Copper Cell)
1.2 -.9 =.3
.3 * 680 Ohms = 204
204 / 1.2 = 170 Ohms Internal R

My Deep Cycle
12.34 -12.33 = ..01
.01 * 12 Ohms = .12
.12 / 12.34 = .00972 Ohms internal R

Just testing and it seems to work.

[John_Bedini]

Branch,
Been playing around with a way to make it real easy to find internal R
How about this, it is much easier.
Your Battery:
V Batt= 12.94
V Drop Batt = 12.89
Your resistor 464 Ohms

12.94 - 12.89 = .05
.05 * 464 = 232
232 / 12.94 = 17.9 Ohms internal R


My Battery
12.00 -10.50 = 1.5V
1.5 * 12 Ohms = 18
18 / 12.00 = 1.5 Ohms Internal R

My Lead Acid Motor Cycle Battery
12.65 - 12.63 = .02
.02 * 12 Ohms = .24
.24 / 12.65 = .018 Ohms internal R

My Crystal Cell (Mag /Copper Cell)
1.2 -.9 =.3
.3 * 680 Ohms = 204
204 / 1.2 = 170 Ohms Internal R

My Deep Cycle
12.34 -12.33 = ..01
.01 * 12 Ohms = .12
.12 / 12.34 = .00972 Ohms internal R

Just testing and it seems to work.

[LesK]

John,
You said a lot here. I can see I have some homework to do.... I know what you mean, and it is hard to teach the teacher. The project I mention below, I hope to serve just such a purpose.

I am just winding the coils for a six coil machine based on Ralph's. As I understand from John K, it was run with an alum battery.
that is part of why I was motivated to build yet another machine. I have some of these Alpha Cells that are rated at 25 amps 12 volt @ 160minutes down to 1.75 volts.
AlphaCell RE Top Terminal - Alpha.com

I have a couple that still work but about six of them don't, so I was thinking of tearing them down to make crystal cells to run the six coil. The plates I suspect are thick. and lots of surface.

Les

LesK,
This math will get you in the ballpark, but the professor that posted this a long time ago has made an error with the numbers. If the resistance is 500 ohms then the impedance is 5.1 ohms, how did I get this I looked at the B&K witch says something much different with this battery. Most engineers have a junk box for making simple circuits. You can just pick a resistor and say that will work and you will be close enough. The final circuits must be balanced in the end. I have always just looked at the standing voltage and just as the curve starts to drop by loading with a resistor that would be where I would want to work and that is around 330 ohms. Way too high for some power sucking 12 volt circuits. Your right its not 2.4 ohms it's 24 ohms if you plug the numbers into that my load is 12 ohms plug that in the masters equation from the university where he teaches . It's true that it will balance between the battery and the load. My B&K is saying 233 ohms It's a very expensive analyzer for batteries, lead acid. This battery is not lead acid even if it has lead plates. it's a lead Alkaline battery with a much different impedance in what it can handle for a load. You can see it wants to stand at 10.50 volts and will supply current all the way down, a Lead Acid battery would be dead at that level. A car battery is dead at 12 volts the only power you can have is .34 volts because it's in a charged condition and will stand at 12.34V some at 12.65V so you can only have the .65 volts until the battery is dead at 12V. You can push this if you want, down to 10.50 but the battery will be damaged, it's just the way lead acid works. Deep cycle batteries are very different in the way they work. Not one person should be having a problem with a simple SG machine if you have just understood what I said here. Most SG machines should not be running at over 120 Ma. The Ferris Wheel Energizer was running at 1.2 amps for a 800 pound machine. and a wheel weight of 600 pounds. Most people do not balance things out with the SG They look at current as the big savior to the machine, it's not. But a little about batteries.

[Branch Gordon]

My internal resistance test:

Open circuit voltage: 12.94
Resistor: 470 ohms (464 on the DMM)
Voltage drop: .3V

Rbatt = 0.3*(464/(0.3+12.94))

Internal resistance equals 10.51 ohms.

Here's a video showing how I did this. Let me know if I didn't do it right. I said the voltage under load in the video is 12.89...but you will see when you watch it that it's 12.91 when it starts out.

[Branch Gordon]

Yeah around 41 hours. I have each of my LEDs running on the end of a 470 ohm resistor.

I'm gonna try and calculate the battery impedance here shortly...I'll post what that is.

I noticed that I have zeolite deposits around the caps as I charge it up.

Branch,
I have a 600 it is not the same analyzer as the 601, 601 works down to the levels of the battery below 10.50 volts you could try but I think your lowest AMP Hr setting is 7, 601 it is 2 plus impedance measurement.
So you got about what 41 hrs?

[John_Bedini]

Branch,
I have a 600 it is not the same analyzer as the 601, 601 works down to the levels of the battery below 10.50 volts you could try but I think your lowest AMP Hr setting is 7, 601 it is 2 plus impedance measurement.
So you got about what 41 hrs?

[Branch Gordon]

Short video...only around a minute. Showing the end of my recent curve. This was pulling around 290mA for about 41 hours. Interesting note...after I shut off the video recorder, I unhooked the CBA III, and my LEDs popped back on. Not sure if that means the CBA III is pulling a little from the battery to chart?

PH tester on the way. Will also be calculating impedance and adjusting resistance appropriately.

John B...I have the B&K 600 model. Is that much different than the 601? Can I use it to calculate the impedance?

[John_Bedini]

Ralph,
That is good work, keep it up you will get it all working.

[trancedrum]

Up date Alum battery

Hi everybody,
a quick up date for my alum conversion battery.

Thank you very much John for the math and the last video for the mix,appreciate a lot your total involvement.
I will apply the change in light of the new information ,about impedance ecc.
I wont to get these right ,now I am playing catching up like always,but the result are better and better.

Saluti Ralph

[John_Bedini]

LesK,
This math will get you in the ballpark, but the professor that posted this a long time ago has made an error with the numbers. If the resistance is 500 ohms then the impedance is 5.1 ohms, how did I get this I looked at the B&K witch says something much different with this battery. Most engineers have a junk box for making simple circuits. You can just pick a resistor and say that will work and you will be close enough. The final circuits must be balanced in the end. I have always just looked at the standing voltage and just as the curve starts to drop by loading with a resistor that would be where I would want to work and that is around 330 ohms. Way too high for some power sucking 12 volt circuits. Your right its not 2.4 ohms it's 24 ohms if you plug the numbers into that my load is 12 ohms plug that in the masters equation from the university where he teaches . It's true that it will balance between the battery and the load. My B&K is saying 233 ohms It's a very expensive analyzer for batteries, lead acid. This battery is not lead acid even if it has lead plates. it's a lead Alkaline battery with a much different impedance in what it can handle for a load. You can see it wants to stand at 10.50 volts and will supply current all the way down, a Lead Acid battery would be dead at that level. A car battery is dead at 12 volts the only power you can have is .34 volts because it's in a charged condition and will stand at 12.34V some at 12.65V so you can only have the .65 volts until the battery is dead at 12V. You can push this if you want, down to 10.50 but the battery will be damaged, it's just the way lead acid works. Deep cycle batteries are very different in the way they work. Not one person should be having a problem with a simple SG machine if you have just understood what I said here. Most SG machines should not be running at over 120 Ma. The Ferris Wheel Energizer was running at 1.2 amps for a 800 pound machine. and a wheel weight of 600 pounds. Most people do not balance things out with the SG They look at current as the big savior to the machine, it's not. But a little about batteries.

[nickle989]

John B, thanks.

Nice approach on the zeolite.

If you like to see something interesting to the "perfect gas - free energy" in some old chemistry books. Take the cell once it is conditioned and place it in sealed pressure vessol, with a pressure guage, watch your voltage / amperage with a load on and watch your preasure guage ... you will need one maybe at most 0-5lb. Cheers

[LesK]

John,
Thank you for the math on the battery impedance. The 2.4 ohms was a real surprise. Isn't that about perfect for the ferris wheel?

Les

[John_Bedini]

Branch,
You only need one of these either 9 hydrate or 5 hydrate,
chose the lesser of the two evils. You do not need both.
This is just my mix someone my do it different.

[Branch Gordon]

I wanted to see if I could find everything online. Are these all the correct chemicals?

Sodium Silicate, Grade 40
Sulfuric Acid
Sodium metasilicate nonahydrate
Sodium metasilicate pentahydrate
Ammonium Aluminum Sulfate

The Sodium metasilicate nonahydrate is quite expensive!

[John_Koorn]

Hey John B,

Thanks for the info. I have a question about forming the battery after putting in the solution. On my motorcycle battery that is rated at 3Ah I first formed it at 1A for 3 hours on the lab power supply, but noticed the battery was very warm when I did this. For fear of warping the plates I am now re-charging it at 0.5A for 6 hours and the battery does not get as warm.

I am noticing that the battery is getting stronger and stronger after each cycle, but I still think I don't have enough Alum in the solution. When charging the battery rises to ~12.5v immediately and then settles a ~17.0v. Attached is a picture of the charge curves after adding 1.5mL to each cell and the red and green lines are curves charging at 0.5A.


John K.