How to Make a Bedini Crystal Battery

[John_Bedini]

Branch,
It's not hard to make that mix you can see it when it forms the crystals mixing the Alum with the acid and you stop and mix The sodium silicate will form another crystal and you can see that too, Hydrate you do not use much about a table spoon of that. You do use the whole cup of Alum.

Do the Alum water first....
So about 3 cups of water 1/2 Cup of Sodium Silicate 1/8 cup SO4 One cup of Alum
One Table spoon of Hydrate 9/5 do not let it gel up unless you want to do something else. keep mixing then just let it sit and draw the liquid out for the battery.

[John_Bedini]

Branch,
The charger is pulse it's in the range of short 10 to 20 amp peaks depending on the load. If you let that battery rest now and recharge it you should see it get much stronger.
That tester should work. The one I got is made by the same people but I think the range is different I will get the number and post it. I use a constant current supply to form them at 1 amp it takes a bit of time to do it.
It should not blink the green light as much this time.

[Branch Gordon]

Here is an update tonight on my alum battery. It's been powering an LED load for 30 hours now. I didn't realize that the larger "ultra-bright" LEDs had a higher trigger voltage, so I had to replace those in the middle of the curve with the smaller LEDs. So that's what the small decrease in voltage is in the curve.

Anxious to see where it is tomorrow morning.

[Branch Gordon]

Here is the PH tester I just purchased. It looked slim enough to fit into the cells on my motorcycle battery. I read it's important to also get some calibration solution. Links below...I'll post my results with it once it arrives next week.

Hanna Instruments HI 98103B Beer pH Tester,with Replaceable Electrode: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific
Amazon.com: General Hydroponics Ph 4.01 & Ph 7.0 Calibration Solution Kit - 8 Ounces: Patio, Lawn & Garden

[Branch Gordon]

I have a few questions in reference to this recent video...

1. How important is the amperage on the forming charge? Is this something you scale up with larger AH batteries? I used the little RC-2A12, but I don't have any idea how many amps it is charging with.

2. You showed the chemicals used in your mix, but I didn't see the ratio. Will you be divulging that information? I guess it doesn't matter though if I can't acquire them (without being in a company).

3. Is that the same mixture you used in your motorcycle 5AH battery? I had thought we were just using alum and sulfuric acid to balance the cells...so I'm confused how these other chemicals are coming into play.

4. Once you have the impedance figured out for the cells, then do you just setup a resistor with the same ohms in series with the load? So if my impedance ends up being 4.1 for the battery, do I just use a variable rheostat to match that?

Thanks!

[QUOTE=John_Bedini;2295]In this video I’m showing how I mixed the chemicals for the Lead Hydrate 9 battery, I made one mistake about the standing voltage so I corrected it. Important to not let your meter’s battery run out. Most Alum Batteries stand between 9.3 to 11.34 volts. @.1 Ohms
John Bedini & Chuck Hupp.

Mixing Chemicals for Hydrate Cell 9 John Bedin &i Chuck Hupp - YouTube

[John_Bedini]

What you need to do is measure and record the open circuit voltage of the battery, Then you need to load it with a resistor. Use one that draws a good bit of current (50 ohm, 100 ohms, etc) and measure and record the voltage again. The difference between the two readings is the number we need for the math below. (You might have to do this second measurement fast so as not to burn up your resistor unless you have a big power resistor. Remember that P=V^2/R which for 50 ohms would be 12^2/50 or almost 3 watts; so be fast and careful if you use a resistor with a smaller power rating).

OK now the math. The internal resistance of the battery actually froms a resistive voltage divider with the external resistor you load it with. This is what causes the voltage drop. The standard equation for this voltage drop is:

Vdrop = Vbatt*(Rbatt/(RL+Rbatt))

Where:
Vdrop is the difference in your two readings above
Vbatt is the open circuit voltage measured above
RL is the resistor you load the battery with
Rbatt is the battery internal resistance you're looking for

If you do a bit of algebra and solve the equation above for Rbatt, you get the following equation:

Rbatt = Vdrop*(RL/(Vdrop+Vbatt))

Just plug the numbers you measured above into this equation and you'll have your answer.

Here's an Example:

Vbatt = 12V
When loaded with 500 ohms the battery voltage drops to 11.9 V ... or Vdrop = 0.1V

Plug the numbers in:

Rbatt = 0.1*(500/(0.1+12))

Rbatt = 4.1 ohms


You could use a variable rheostat resistor so you could adjust where your going to work at. The B&K is doing it much different but this should be close enough to get a general idea of what the battery is. If you look at the battery open voltage and apply the load and then take that voltage and plug that into the equation you will see the impedance of the whole circuit working on the battery. The video I just posted that battery is around 2.4 Ohms with load. A Lead Acid Battery is .00023 Ohms typ.

[John_Bedini]

I’m showing how I mixed the chemicals

In this video I’m showing how I mixed the chemicals for the Lead Hydrate 9 battery, I made one mistake about the standing voltage so I corrected it. Important to not let your meter’s battery run out. Most Alum Batteries stand between 9.3 to 11.34 volts. @.1 Ohms
John Bedini & Chuck Hupp.

[John_Bedini]

I use a B&K 601 tester. The converted motor cycle batteries usually run at .1 Ohms

[nickle989]

John B, Could you show/post by example how you are calculating the impedance of the battery and an individual cell. I know that this may seem trivial but I would like to make sure we are calculating the way you are. Thanks.

[Branch Gordon]

I will be ordering one tonight. Thanks for the response.

Branch,
Go to Amazon. com and type in Ph meter, that is what I did. Let the lights stay on and make sure nobody is home. Be back soon with the video on what I did. I'm around a ph of 6.1 to 6.8. Alum is acidic by itself. Yes keep everything the same then make small changes.

[John_Bedini]

Branch,
Go to Amazon. com and type in Ph meter, that is what I did. Let the lights stay on and make sure nobody is home. Be back soon with the video on what I did. I'm around a ph of 6.1 to 6.8. Alum is acidic by itself. Yes keep everything the same then make small changes.

[Branch Gordon]

JB-

What you are suggesting (testing the PH before adding to the battery) is exactly what I'm planning to do when I convert my next battery. I still have that lead acid that is the same model as my converted alum battery. I'm shopping around for a decent PH meter that isn't going to break the bank. Any suggestions on that?

The curve on my alum battery is leveling out this morning at around 3V. Again, it's a 4AH battery...right now powering 290mA of LEDs. Been running for 23 hours now...and it's looking like it's gonna level out completely and keep running a looooong time. That's what I'm hoping. If it does, I'm gonna test the PH on that battery, and just duplicate it with the next battery.

You mentioned earlier you could wire these together to get to 12V. But when they first start out fully charged, the bank would be much higher than 12V. I was thinking I could just discharge them all down to where they level out, and then start using them at 12V...but they immediately bounce back up to around 5-6V when removing a load. Is that even a viable application?

An Answer to JohnHav,

changing impedance in the cells

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

JohnHav,
I just point this out because others have seen this also. In my lab we have one battery that has been hanging at 2.78 volts for over a week now and fluxuating at the level of the diodes. I put the battery in a video. My mix is much different in this battery of which I explained on the Energy Science Forum. I will be posting a video of how I mixed the chemicals. This effect is very responsive to any kind of discharge and temp. Fausto's Chart also shows that. Chuck has a Crystal cell that he put on a video that has been running for over 3 weeks now under load at 45 Ma, it has out run his ni-cad. To match the impedance of the cell is very important. The mixture is also very important. Early in this group I said this would happen. Alum can do some things with metals people have not really explored. It's not that there are no Lead Alkaline batteries, many can be found but the balance of the chemicals is very important as it is a must in all the patents. In a solid crystal cell it is not reachable as it will degrade the components. That cell can draw from the environment and continue to power led's and oscillators but not with much power, 2 to 5 Ma. In the aqueous solution it must be balanced as the lead battery's chemistry will not build that balance, you must balance it. When I watch most of the videos of people doing this conversion I see nobody balancing the PH of the chemicals. Do yourself an experiment, Mix up your Alum in a clear state and start to add Sulfuric Acid watch what happens if right it will lock into crystals, Then you will know. The Alum Lead Battery is much different in the voltage and impedance if it were Lead Acid it would stand at 12.67 volts. But The Alum battery at the highest level can only stand at 11.34 or so and some at 9.35 that is depending on the lead plates in the battery. All your calculations must be adjusted in amp hrs at that Voltage the cells work at, then you must figure the impedance of the cells as they are in series and you will find what is across each one, voltage wise, Kirchhoff's Law. Only then can someone run a proper test on this battery. I always look at this as the voltage across each component is important. I bring up "Piigogine" because of the changing impedance in the cells, keep changing from one state to another, it's not stable unless it is balanced out. If in a crystal state you have much different problems to solve with this effect. I have out run my batteries capacity at the lab but it is far from dead.
I'm getting to old to keep trying to explain all this.

[John_Bedini]

An Answer to JohnHav,

changing impedance in the cells

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

JohnHav,
I just point this out because others have seen this also. In my lab we have one battery that has been hanging at 2.78 volts for over a week now and fluxuating at the level of the diodes. I put the battery in a video. My mix is much different in this battery of which I explained on the Energy Science Forum. I will be posting a video of how I mixed the chemicals. This effect is very responsive to any kind of discharge and temp. Fausto's Chart also shows that. Chuck has a Crystal cell that he put on a video that has been running for over 3 weeks now under load at 45 Ma, it has out run his ni-cad. To match the impedance of the cell is very important. The mixture is also very important. Early in this group I said this would happen. Alum can do some things with metals people have not really explored. It's not that there are no Lead Alkaline batteries, many can be found but the balance of the chemicals is very important as it is a must in all the patents. In a solid crystal cell it is not reachable as it will degrade the components. That cell can draw from the environment and continue to power led's and oscillators but not with much power, 2 to 5 Ma. In the aqueous solution it must be balanced as the lead battery's chemistry will not build that balance, you must balance it. When I watch most of the videos of people doing this conversion I see nobody balancing the PH of the chemicals. Do yourself an experiment, Mix up your Alum in a clear state and start to add Sulfuric Acid watch what happens if right it will lock into crystals, Then you will know. The Alum Lead Battery is much different in the voltage and impedance if it were Lead Acid it would stand at 12.67 volts. But The Alum battery at the highest level can only stand at 11.34 or so and some at 9.35 that is depending on the lead plates in the battery. All your calculations must be adjusted in amp hrs at that Voltage the cells work at, then you must figure the impedance of the cells as they are in series and you will find what is across each one, voltage wise, Kirchhoff's Law. Only then can someone run a proper test on this battery. I always look at this as the voltage across each component is important. I bring up "Piigogine" because of the changing impedance in the cells, keep changing from one state to another, it's not stable unless it is balanced out. If in a crystal state you have much different problems to solve with this effect. I have out run my batteries capacity at the lab but it is far from dead.
I'm getting to old to keep trying to explain all this.

[John_Bedini]

RS, Zardox,


I will post another video so everbody get's it. So just wait for that. The Zeolite is not the same type. So just hold on.

[zardox]

Ok I have a new in the box Exide motorcycle battery. I have my ammonium aluminum sulfate. I have some sodium carbonate that I had purchased a while back to try as electrolyte in some bottle capacitors that I thought might work well here as well. Is it correct what was said earlier about wanting a neutral balance and needing to add a little sulfuric acid to the mix? I know that the alum is a little acidic but the sodium carbonate is over 11 the other direction.
Maybe I am out to lunch and for sure I don't have the knowledge that most of you have but I am trying to learn