How to Make a Bedini Crystal Battery

[LesK]

Very Nice work!
Way to go Fausto.

John and chuck Awesome! Thank you for sharing. I got my case cleaned up today for the new cells but I am not sure if I should use the red lead plates.


Thanks
Les

[Branch Gordon]

So...the implications of that working and being scaled up are pretty huge. Hypothetically what is the plan with that kind of setup long-term?

Are you allowed to manufacture and sell that setup (once it's fully tested and ironed out)? Or is the plan to try and teach everyone how to build it because some agency will show up and shut you down?

Sorry if this has been asked before...

Branch

In this update video I’m showing where the energy is coming from with this type of system.
John Bedini & Chuck Hupp.

[Branch Gordon]

Video update as I work to balance the PH on this battery...

[John_Bedini]

negative entropy

@ All,
I have been testing this theory for months now, but I did not want to say anything until I was sure what was going on. The mix was very simple 50% Alum (Ammonium Aluminum Silicate) and 50% (Sodium Carbonate) in Chucks tests he has been working for several months at these little cells to see what was going on. You will always find Chuck measuring things. The Oscillators I have posted before on how to make them. It is important the exothermic reaction stops between the Alum and the Sodium Carbonate. Then the mix is watered down to make a liquid out of that and the plates are immersed in the mix that is liquid. A forming charge is applied and then the battery is drained and this is repeated until the oxides are formed. I used Sheet Zinc but other things can be used. This cell can be critical with the insulator material as it can form dendrites between the plates. The Oscillator is a SG circuit in forced condition. It is not my intention to sell anything the information has always been on the groups with the SG Energizer, but then who is listening to what I have said. I have covered this many times that the current is not wanted in my circuits. The negative effect or termed a negative resistor takes place in the cells chemical, same as a lead acid battery, Again I will point this out to you all,,,,Prigogine system: a many-particle system which is deliberately forced to exist far from thermodynamic equilibrium, and which exhibits negative entropy. Note that local curvature of vacuum spacetime places the local virtual state flux in nonequilibrium conditions, with the result that an observable energy "sink" or "source" can be produced.This can be seen in the cell temp going negative to ambient room temp.

[plengo]

In this video I’m showing a 4 plate Lead Crystal Cell made from an Everstart Wal-Mart Battery, I found that it depends on the number of plates and the surface area of the lead Alum Crystal. I used a pre- manufactured plate system and its case. I have charted these batteries for two days. John Bedini


@ All,
I suggest that you watch this as some of the information you need to do this I try to give as much information as I can. I'm not ready to give the exact formula as I'm looking for a substitute for one of the chemicals.

Video update as I work to balance the PH on this battery...

Hey Gordon,

Good question about balancing and how.

What was the PH number you mention? My cells are a little bit more acidic too and they are small 2 plates from those 5amp/h gel battery. I am able to still present patterns that Bedini's cells are showing.

His cells (I think) are more well balanced and for the same cell plate size, his cells are performing much better than mine and yet presenting the same pattern.

In worst case scenario for your battery you can collect as much data as possible to accumulate the amount of evidence in favor or against the phenomena we describe to be happening. It only helps more to understand the true nature of those crystal cells.

Fausto.

[Wei]

I did notice the cooling effect on my lead-alum cell when i was forming it. It was bubbling quite a bit at the end of the charge so I was keeping track of temperature and I thought the cooling was due to the bubbles.

When the positive plate is sandwich between 2 negative plates, I get lower internal resistance and more capacity.

As the water evaporate and the cell discharges, lots of crystals start to grow on the plates.

[plengo]

@ All,
I have been testing this theory for months now, but I did not want to say anything until I was sure what was going on. The mix was very simple 50% Alum (Ammonium Aluminum Silicate) and 50% (Sodium Carbonate) in Chucks tests he has been working for several months at these little cells to see what was going on. You will always find Chuck measuring things. The Oscillators I have posted before on how to make them. It is important the exothermic reaction stops between the Alum and the Sodium Carbonate. Then the mix is watered down to make a liquid out of that and the plates are immersed in the mix that is liquid. A forming charge is applied and then the battery is drained and this is repeated until the oxides are formed. I used Sheet Zinc but other things can be used. This cell can be critical with the insulator material as it can form dendrites between the plates. The Oscillator is a SG circuit in forced condition. It is not my intention to sell anything the information has always been on the groups with the SG Energizer, but then who is listening to what I have said. I have covered this many times that the current is not wanted in my circuits. The negative effect or termed a negative resistor takes place in the cells chemical, same as a lead acid battery, Again I will point this out to you all,,,,Prigogine system: a many-particle system which is deliberately forced to exist far from thermodynamic equilibrium, and which exhibits negative entropy. Note that local curvature of vacuum spacetime places the local virtual state flux in nonequilibrium conditions, with the result that an observable energy "sink" or "source" can be produced.This can be seen in the cell temp going negative to ambient room temp.

Done good Mr Bedini. You wait to show when it is right. I am still learning that, more and more.

I am curious what is the inclination for trying the Sodium Carbonate, would it because it is working like an acid but a more gentle one?

Thanks for the tips of the dendrites. I think my first cell (one in a video totally covered with white crystals) had that problem.

Oscillator in forced condition is an interesting name. Is that meaning variable input impedance oscillator?

Unfortunately none of my cells are showing the lower temperature level (signs of Prigogine effects).

I am listening.

Fausto.

[John_Bedini]

Fausto,
Alum is acidic from the beginning Alum is made with SO4 and the balance for the Lead Acid battery would be more towards the Acidic side. it stands to reason that lead Acid would want to be in a range of PH 4. The crystal locks it up How many did the experiment with Alum water and sulfuric acid to see it form crystals, that is what is going on in the battery. They can not attach to the plates can anybody answer why? What did grade school teach about charges?. Why do the acid crystals drop to the bottom. and yet the solution works in the battery? Your Ph is off a little it is a fine balance in the cell.

Fausto could you give me a PH reading of your cells. I posted the math to show what the cells were doing with the internal resistance. I would almost bet if Branch goes the other way the impedance of the cell will move up high. If you move towards a water battery you will have no current and the battery will fall right away. Fausto, Can you do a test on the battery you have made and give me the impedance or internal resistance after charge of the cell this means allot in the final result. Ideal condition on this battery would be .5 to .1 Ohms internal.

The Lead Zinc battery is far different yet, but I could make it real big. We have only touched the surface here. Chuck and I only have so much time in a day to do things and batteries take a long time to analyze and make. It is important in the balance, the thing is it could be a balance of 4 to 5 on the PH or it could be a balance 6 to 8, Balance is balance no matter where you draw the 0 line. Same with the scope you use. In other words if you move to the right you can balance on that side, if you move to the left you can balance on that side too. So the cell with it's metals must be balanced for it to operate as a lead battery.

You can move this around with the Lead Acid battery as long as your not filling it with SO4. I would say it needs to be at a PH of 4 towards the acid end. You will find allot going on in this battery, more then meets the eye. The batteries Chuck and I are building are working very well and we are not worried about the SO4 as the Alum in a small amount takes care of that, it keeps growing with addition of water. The Lead Battery has never had a chemistry like this.

The Lead Zinc battery the mixture is Aluminum Carbonate in the reaction

[LesK]

John,
You mentioned that it was important the exothermic reaction stops between the alum and sodium carbonate.
Could you expand on that a bit?

I cannot find much on the Prigogine system but what I did find related to self-organized systems. It seems we are taking something with a random nature and assisting it to self organize. Chemically this is beyond my knowledge but I can see the results and acknowledge the observational results. Amazing observations.

What in the world motivated you to try zinc?

Les

[Branch Gordon]

JB-

I can't sort out how to raise the PH other than diluting with water. Both ingredients (alum, S04) are acidic, so seems like the addition of either will lower the PH. As my PH is SUPER low at .6....I don't understand what I'm supposed to do here.

I've already added distilled water and a new curve is running to compare. What is your recommendation if my new curve falls right away?

Also, didn't mean to to annoy you with my question about selling this stuff...I haven't been around these forums long enough to have heard you explain things before...

Fausto,
Alum is acidic from the beginning Alum is made with SO4 and the balance for the Lead Acid battery would be more towards the Acidic side. it stands to reason that lead Acid would want to be in a range of PH 4. The crystal locks it up How many did the experiment with Alum water and sulfuric acid to see it form crystals, that is what is going on in the battery. They can not attach to the plates can anybody answer why? What did grade school teach about charges?. Why do the acid crystals drop to the bottom. and yet the solution works in the battery? Your Ph is off a little it is a fine balance in the cell.

Fausto could you give me a PH reading of your cells. I posted the math to show what the cells were doing with the internal resistance. I would almost bet if Branch goes the other way the impedance of the cell will move up high. If you move towards a water battery you will have no current and the battery will fall right away. Fausto, Can you do a test on the battery you have made and give me the impedance or internal resistance after charge of the cell this means allot in the final result. Ideal condition on this battery would be .5 to .1 Ohms internal.

The Lead Zinc battery is far different yet, but I could make it real big. We have only touched the surface here. Chuck and I only have so much time in a day to do things and batteries take a long time to analyze and make. It is important in the balance, the thing is it could be a balance of 4 to 5 on the PH or it could be a balance 6 to 8, Balance is balance no matter where you draw the 0 line. Same with the scope you use. In other words if you move to the right you can balance on that side, if you move to the left you can balance on that side too. So the cell with it's metals must be balanced for it to operate as a lead battery.

You can move this around with the Lead Acid battery as long as your not filling it with SO4. I would say it needs to be at a PH of 4 towards the acid end. You will find allot going on in this battery, more then meets the eye. The batteries Chuck and I are building are working very well and we are not worried about the SO4 as the Alum in a small amount takes care of that, it keeps growing with addition of water. The Lead Battery has never had a chemistry like this.

The Lead Zinc battery the mixture is Aluminum Carbonate in the reaction

[plengo]

I will measure the ph again the internal resistance as you asked. In the top of my head my ph is around .47 or 4.7 using a paper PH that I have. Red acid, Purple alkaline. The paper is orange.

Fausto.

[Branch Gordon]

.47 or 4.7? That is a pretty big difference. Looking forward to seeing the results of your test. I felt I was on the right track here but now I am stumped...

[Lidmotor]

Replication

@John, Chuck, and All
I successfully replicated the Lead & Zinc rechargeable cell. The cell works just fine. I tested it for couple of days to make sure. Actually I really like it. Here is the patent pending we found that describes the general idea:

LEAD-ZINC BATTERY - Patent application

One of my Youtube commenters told me about it and I told John and Chuck. John picked up on the idea, put his brain and 30+ years of knowledge into it-----and well I think that the rest will be history. The above patent does not specifiy the exact electrolyte that John uses (Alum & sodium carbonate) so what John did becomes unique. Basically the sodium carbonate buffers the situation so that the zinc doesn't get eaten up. The cell in it's basic form is a .63v galvanic (zinc & lead) and you can find out about that if you do a Google search. The zinc is the anode and normally would get eaten up---- but when you turn it into a rechargeable (with the special electrolyte) it becomes a different animal. The reaction can go both ways.

I did more work on my all stainless steel plate material cell and found out that it has already been done. Titanium has also been used. The way that it was done though is a little unusual. The metal grid is made and then coated with a special conductive paint to protect the metal. The lead oxide paste is then applied to the grid. The whole idea was to reduce the overall weight of the battery but it is expensive.

I am still looking into the oscillator recharge effect on these lead cells. Nothing solid to report yet from my kitchen table laboratory.

Lidmotor

[John_Bedini]

Branch,
The balance of the cell can work at either end of the chart. The lead acid battery is going to require that. The PH should be at 4 the chemistry of that battery requires that to allow Ion transfer. The Idea is to just stop the normal sulfating on the lead plates. After that you have a completely different battery. I have tried to explain very carefully what needs to be done here. I have about 20 alum batteries here, they all work and have been working for years, they were once Lead Acid. The thing about the Alum battery is, It stands lower in voltage and acts more like a Ni-cad type battery. Alum is a far different chemical, that mixed with Sodium Silicate and SO4 is then something much different. It would stand to reason that a lead battery would want to be using SO4. But that can be changed by mixing the chemicals. If your not using just straight SO4 then you do not have a lead acid battery. You just need to add enough to make it conductive on the acidic side. The Alum grabs that acid as I have tried to show and turns it to Zeolite, synthetic form in a dry state. You need to be towards the acid side more. If your building a different battery then it may require a completely different PH and chemical. but we are dealing with a "Converted Lead Acid Battery" using a much different chemical mix. You need to be towards a Ph of 4. you can not get any time towards the water side as I said to Fausto. It does not make a difference which side of the field you play ball on as you can always find a balance, for that cell, that is what I mean by balance, SO4 is required in the mix to make that compound conductive for Ion movement.Then and only then will you see the impedance of the cell drop and you will have current flow. The only reason I'm taking the cells here to 1 volt is to prove no damage happens to the battery that would normally happen to the normal Lead Acid battery using straight SO4. All the other Experiments with Crystal cells using Copper and Magnesium are meaningless at this point and should not be confused with the Lead battery your building. Two different batteries and two different chemical mixes.

[Branch Gordon]

Hi JB,

I do understand all of that. This is all information I already have and understand.

I want be sure you arent misreading what my PH was. Its not 6. Its .6 (point 6). So to get to where you are recommending (4) I need to raise the PH.

If I add more acid to an already acidic mix, its going to lower the PH further.

How do I raise the PH with this battery? What am I missing? Unless you are telling me that adding SO4 is going to raise the PH somehow?

Im not getting sidetracked with these other battery discussions. I will be continuing to work with this conversion of mine until I get it right.

Cheers, and so appreciative of your assistance!