How to Make a Bedini Crystal Battery

[John_Koorn]

All, a quick update on my Alum battery.

On the last cycle before I charged the battery it was resting at 6.43v. I charged it with a lab power supply at 1 amp for about 2-3 hours. After this time the battery was at about 16v. I then discharged it with a bank of 51 5mm super bright LEDs (that's a lot of light!). The next morning the battery was at 3.76v and LEDs still shining brightly.

Here's the kicker! The battery has taken 3 days to drop down to 2.64v and the lights are still on! Not very bright now, but still enough to read by.

I haven't graphed a discharge curve, but I will on the next cycle. I'm pretty sure I've taken out more than the 3ah I put in the battery.

You guys have to try this, you won't believe it until you see in front of your own eyes. It seems that there is something about running LEDs on these batteries that shows a phenomena that is not seen by running resistive loads or a constant current load.

One of my next tests will be to do JB's circuit that charges the battery with a small solar panel during the day and runs LEDs at night. As soon as I get some more Alum I'll do some more batteries.

John K.

[Georgey Nico]

Hi John / Barrie

I've had a short conversation with a retied chemist, his recommendation is Analytical Grade for growing crystals.

George N.

[John_Koorn]

Thanks Barrie,

Here's a couple of pictures of my Alum crystals that are growing. These have been growing for a couple of weeks and started off with about 2 teaspoons of Alum powder and 1 cup of water. Not much happened for the first 10-12 days but in the last couple of days I've had them in a window that gets the sun on it and most of the water has either evaporated or sucked into the crystal and the crystals probably tripled in size in the last couple of days.

This was an experiment to see if I could get them to grow and finding a good way to do it. I doubt I'll use these in a Lead Alum battery as the crystals have not been covered and are probably contaminated. But it was fun. I have another seed crystal I'm going to place in a plastic container with a couple of breathe holes in the side so the dust can't get in and I think I will leave them in the sunny window and just spray a little distilled water on them each day to keep them moist.

John K.

[plengo]

It is funny how crystals can grow by just giving water. It is like you start with a small amount and and up with a bigger amount and the food is water.

What a strange little rock, ins't it?

Fausto.

[min2oly]

Ralph and all,
with the discharge curves we're seeing here, I'm beginning to see how your 6PM SSG had such a nice COP at the Bedini-Linderman conference. Very nice, we're putting as much time in the limited hours we have these days, into converting a decent size marine battery. Thanks everyone for all the work you are sharing, it really helps.

"The primary was an alum converted car battery - about 450CCA, condition and history unknown." from monopole2 post by John K. : Yahoo! Groups

Ralph, I think everyone is already familiar with your 6 coiler it cant hurt to repost :-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7J18S8rmN7E

kind regards,
Patrick

[Tom C]

so I got my main chems today alum, waterglass, sulfuric acid. I dont have the 5 or 9 hydrate yet. ph of water and alum alone with the ratios posted in post #356? puts it at 2. adding the acid does not change it the amount is so low, the waterglass which has a ph of 12 seems to be the key to moving the ph higher. what I have discovered is that at sufficient ratios to get the ph above 4 with the waterglass the mixture immediatly crystalizes in the blender. I had to add water to the mixture to get it liquid enough to get it into my storage battery, this did not hurt the ph. my battery was not rinsed enough, even though I had run almost 5 gallons of distilled water thru it, including letting it sit for a day or so between rinsings, the ph dropped to 2. this battery however has not been formed yet, so I will see if the ph changes after charging. it may take a while it is a trojan T125.

waterglass is cool stuff though, very hi ph, they say between 10 and 12, mine is 40% tech grade, same stuff JB has.

Tom C

[Michael Luton]

I hope this is not wrong to post under this thread, if so please move or remove this message. I have a battery chemistry question. I disassembled a motor cycle battery that would no longer take a charge. Most of the plates were as I expected and were either reddish or gray, but one set was black. I was hoping someone could shed some light on why one set was black.
As for the batteries history. It is one of 2 dry charge batteries I purchased to experiment with. The acid came from the same container at the same time as the other cells and would only have been topped off with distilled water. The battery was only radiantly charged. In my testing of different circuits I freely admit to abusing it in various ways. The other battery is still working fine.

[John_Bedini]

Michael,
That happens when the battery reverses a cell inside, it happens with hard loading. Then the plates change odd colors. The battery tries to charge that one cell in the series bank reverse.

I hope this is not wrong to post under this thread, if so please move or remove this message. I have a battery chemistry question. I disassembled a motor cycle battery that would no longer take a charge. Most of the plates were as I expected and were either reddish or gray, but one set was black. I was hoping someone could shed some light on why one set was black.
As for the batteries history. It is one of 2 dry charge batteries I purchased to experiment with. The acid came from the same container at the same time as the other cells and would only have been topped off with distilled water. The battery was only radiantly charged. In my testing of different circuits I freely admit to abusing it in various ways. The other battery is still working fine.

[Michael Luton]

Michael,
That happens when the battery reverses a cell inside, it happens with hard loading. Then the plates change odd colors. The battery tries to charge that one cell in the series bank reverse.

Thanks John that explains a lot and clears up my confusion. Appreciate your time and attention.

[Tom C]

upate,

resting voltage of this battery is now 5.4 volt. when I put the solution into the battery it was liquid, about 1/2 hour later it had completely gelled. after charging there is now water on top of the cells, and you can see the crystal down inside the seperators.

time for some serious load testing!!

Tom C

[John_Koorn]

@Tom C, did you charge it up yet? I'm interested to see a what voltage it level off at.


All, I ran a cycle with 3mL of battery acid in the alum solution. Remember, this was a dry charge battery to start with. The charge curve showed it levelled off at 16.3v which I think is too high. It also rested at 11.03v which is a little low. I ran the discharge curve out until the LEDs would not light any more, which was about 2.6v on the battery. It's very difficult to calculate the energy out as the ammeter was reading 0 amps but the LEDs were still lit, go figure.


I think with the dry charge batteries you need to add more acid, whereas if you convert a wet charged battery the acid is already formed on the plates so you don't have to add the acid.


I've now added another 1.5mL of acid to each cell and charged it up. This time it levelled off at 16.0v and rested at 11.3v, so it's getting closer to the range I want it at impedance wise.


Hope this helps some people.


John K.

[Branch Gordon]

I wanted to comment on your ammeter reading...

My recent curve, which I just ended a few hours ago....I had 300mA of LED's as the load. I used the CBA III to chart the curve.... At some point under 3V, the LED's go out. But if I disconnect the CBA III, the LED"s come back on. And stay on. In fact they have been lit for 5 days before I disconnected them today.

I was curious if they were still pulling 300mA. Nope. I hooked my DMM in series with the load...it shows around 11mA. So it seems that the load doesn't stay constant as the voltage drops. The light of course is not very useful pulling 11mA..but all the LED's are lit up regardless.

This might be common knowledge to everyone else....but I didn't realize it until today.

@Tom C, did you charge it up yet? I'm interested to see a what voltage it level off at.


All, I ran a cycle with 3mL of battery acid in the alum solution. Remember, this was a dry charge battery to start with. The charge curve showed it levelled off at 16.3v which I think is too high. It also rested at 11.03v which is a little low. I ran the discharge curve out until the LEDs would not light any more, which was about 2.6v on the battery. It's very difficult to calculate the energy out as the ammeter was reading 0 amps but the LEDs were still lit, go figure.


I think with the dry charge batteries you need to add more acid, whereas if you convert a wet charged battery the acid is already formed on the plates so you don't have to add the acid.


I've now added another 1.5mL of acid to each cell and charged it up. This time it levelled off at 16.0v and rested at 11.3v, so it's getting closer to the range I want it at impedance wise.


Hope this helps some people.


John K.

[Wei]

@Tom C, did you charge it up yet? I'm interested to see a what voltage it level off at.


All, I ran a cycle with 3mL of battery acid in the alum solution. Remember, this was a dry charge battery to start with. The charge curve showed it levelled off at 16.3v which I think is too high. It also rested at 11.03v which is a little low. I ran the discharge curve out until the LEDs would not light any more, which was about 2.6v on the battery. It's very difficult to calculate the energy out as the ammeter was reading 0 amps but the LEDs were still lit, go figure.


I think with the dry charge batteries you need to add more acid, whereas if you convert a wet charged battery the acid is already formed on the plates so you don't have to add the acid.


I've now added another 1.5mL of acid to each cell and charged it up. This time it levelled off at 16.0v and rested at 11.3v, so it's getting closer to the range I want it at impedance wise.



John K.

I think you might have to cycle the battery a few times before changing the mixture. The curve will change each time you cycle it.

[John_Koorn]

@Branch, I am seein the same thing just I didn't disconnect the CBA I will try that.

@Wei, yes I have done that. But I'm looking at changing the mix to get the same curves as JB.

John K.

[John_Koorn]

Just a quick update. I loaded my battery again with the 51 super bright LEDs. At the start of the load cycle I was drawing 380mA @ 11.03v = 4.19W and the LEDs were fully bright.

After 801 minutes (13.35 hours) the battery voltage was down to 3.384v @ 31mA = 0.105W and the LEDs were about 2/3 brightness.

I roughly calculated 39Wh in and 29Wh out, but I still don't have the balance right yet. Here's a pic of my charge and discharge curves.


I just added another 1.5mL of SO4 to each cell for a total of 6mL added to 33mL of Alum solution. Slowly but surely...

John K.