How to Make a Bedini Crystal Battery

[jiant]

Thks, Ive been looking for that video for ages. Also, is the reason for the blackened copper producing more electricity with a magnesium electrode than with normal copper because of the electronegativity scale? Ive read that oxygen and magnesium have an enormous electronegativity difference - way more than magnesium and zinc. So, is the copper blackened only for the purpose of oxidizing it and producing a greater electronegativety difference?

[BobZilla]

The black layer comes off, it is supposed too. Have you see the video of Mr. Bedini making one?

Bedini Copper, Alum and Magnesium Battery - YouTube

I used copper pipe end caps for the fist set I made and cut up a fire starter block for the magnesium. They work very well. I put five of them in series and built a led light for them to power. It is not the same as Mr. Bedini's because I didn't use an oscillator but rather more cells to get the voltage.

Later I made some larger ones using a 1/2 inch magnesium rod and copper wire wrapped around with a separator between. That formed a core that I put into a PCV pipe for housing it in the Alum. Those cells work a bit stronger but I am not nearly as happy with those as the smaller end cap's. I think I need more copper in the second model and plan to test that out with an improved version.

[jiant]

I heard online about quenching the hot copper in a borax solution. Does that affect anything? When I normally quench the copper, a bit of the black oxide falls of. Will none of it fall off if I quench the copper in a borax solution?

[BobZilla]

I have had good luck using a MAPP gas torch. It's the yellow bottle. You can get copper red hot with it. The copper I have treated did best when heated up very hot. I basically did what Mr. Bedini shows but I do the borax dip twice.

I am not trying to contradict what John K has said about 300F, only saying what worked good for me. It may work just as well at lower temps but the MAPP gas can get you as hot as you want.

[John_Koorn]

its because I cant find a good way of heating it

John Bedini demonstrated heating a copper bowl on an electric stove element. You could also place it in an oven.

From memory it only has to get to 300F.

John K.

[jiant]

No. Why do people always want to change things before they get a working device? Then they wonder why the inventor disappears

What is wrong with heating it? It works!

John K.

its because I cant find a good way of heating it

[John_Koorn]

A question for making the semiconductor copper. Can the oxide layer be achieved through electrolysis? So bascically, is there another a way to make the semiconductive copper other than heating it.

No. Why do people always want to change things before they get a working device? Then they wonder why the inventor disappears

What is wrong with heating it? It works!

John K.

[doryauto]

doryauto says, very interesting concept.

[GMANG73]

Contact Us - Science Essentials
Has Ammonium aluminum sulfate lab grade
$35. 500grams
Brisbane.Australia.
Regards,

G.G.

[jiant]

A question for making the semiconductor copper. Can the oxide layer be achieved through electrolysis? So bascically, is there another a way to make the semiconductive copper other than heating it.

[HeavensPavement]

Question:
Is anyone else, when mixing the chems, smell ammonia?
its only slight, and now has seem to have fadded, a couple days later.
Im hoping to have plates ready to assemble by weekend, either way i'll post my results.

Thanks John and Chuck for your generousity!

[John_Koorn]

John and Chuck are just waiting for people to replicate and post their results. They have given everybody everything they need to know about replicating your own crystal batteries and having success.

John K.

[GMANG73]

It's good to see people sharing on this "How to Make a Bedini Crystal Battery"
Unfortunatly is seems to be near dead that John and Chuck are not around.
I am sure that they would want us too share our experiments and try too improve this new age concept of a crystal battery.
Just like computers that are linked together to work a problem.
We could pool our potential and SHARE our findings on this topic.
I am still finiding it hard to find Ammonium aluminum sulfate and no it is not viable from ebay.
I had found some labs although they have shut down over the christmas period.
Please keep the posts of results and videos of this great tech.

G.G.

[ocallanan]

Hi All,

Just seen the following.

NRGLAB PTE LTD Auction Feb.5,2013 - YouTube

Method of construction starts at 4:07.

Appears to be an Aluminium - Lead (Lead not confirmed just an observation) Crystal Battery with 3 ingredients mixed with distilled water to form the crystal between the plates. They don't claim it is a battery and claim it converts ambient heat energy.

I got this from here.

Directory:NRGLab Pte. Ltd. SH boxes - PESWiki

If this is real, it seems that all that is needed is the recipe and replication. But even without the recipe, if real it demonstrates the huge potential in this line of research...

Regards,

Ossie

[Bzar]

Crystal Battery Info Summary So Far

I've read and watched everything here, and many other places. In an attempt to understand and communicate the information in a useful manor here is a summary. I hope this info gives new experimenters a place to start.

Thanks all for your sharing, hopefully it continues from all.

A. The Battery
There are different results with different batteries. The types of batteries being used for Alum batteries are:

(1) Dry / charged unused batteries – often the ones from Wal-Mart
(2) Dry / charged used batteries – often explained as “dead” lead acid batteries
(3) Wet / charged unused batteries
(4) Wet / charged used batteries – also often explained as “dead” lead acid batteries
(5) Unformed and uncharged battery newly built with lead and/or a combination of other metals.

Build details regarding the different batteries:

(1) Dry / charged (or pre-formed by the manufacturer) unused batteries – often the ones from Wal-Mart where you just add the acid, charge, and away you go.
- Note 1: Better results from these batteries if you add the acid and charge the battery before adding an Alum mix. This better forms the plates. Save the S04 (discussed below)
- Note 2: Use Mix 1, 2 or 3 (below)
- Process: Fill with acid if not already. Charge. Empty acid. Let dry (some say). Add mix. Charge/Discharge few times to form crystals.

(2) Dry / charged used batteries – often explained as “dead” lead acid batteries because they were allowed to dry out…presumably after bad sulfaction or defect creating a useless state.
- Note 1: Advised to rinse the battery out with distilled water. Do not use baking soda to “neutralize” the battery acid.
- Note 2: May be a good idea to open the battery up and look at the plates if you’re unsure of their condition. Alum can’t restore damaged plates. If the plates are badly damaged (usually the + plates) due to degradation, then take the those plates out and use just the – plates in a newly created battery…however with less capacity.
- Note 3: Plates created by just the – lead plates can have lead oxide and an Alum mix introduced into holes drilled into the + lead plates for an increase charge??
- Note 4: New and old plates will need a forming charge. Because the plates have been in S04 they need not be formed in S04 again. The plates can be put in an Alum and distilled water solution…have the current reversed on them to release old sulfacion (ie. + = - and - = +) for about 30 mins. Then form the plates normally with a normal forming charge (+ = + and - = -)
- Note 4: Use Mix 1, 2, or 3
- Process: Use tips above. Add mix. Reverse Charge. Charge/Discharge few times to form crystals.

(3) Wet / charged unused batteries. Described as buying a new filled and charged (plates formed) battery.
- Note 1: ensure the plates are formed, dump the S04 safely and save it (discussed below).
- Note 2: Use Mix 1, 2, or 3
- Process: Charge. Empty acid. Let dry (some say). Add mix. Charge/Discharge few times to form crystals.

(4) Wet / charged used batteries – also often explained as “dead” lead acid batteries
- Note 1: Advised to rinse the battery out with distilled water after removing the S04 safely and storing for later. Do not use baking soda to “neutralize” the battery acid.
-Note 2: May be a good idea to open the battery up and look at the plates if you’re unsure of their condition. Alum can’t restore terribly damaged plates. If the plates are badly damaged (usually the + plates) due to degradation, then take those plates out and use just the – plates in a newly created battery…with less capacity presumably.
- Note 3: Plates created by just the – lead plates can have lead oxide and an Alum mix introduced into holes drilled into the + lead plates for an increase charge??
- Note 4: New and old plates will need a forming charge. Because the plates have been in S04 they need not be formed in S04 again. The plates can be put in Alum and distilled water solution…have the current reversed on them to release old sulfacion (ie. + = - and - = +) for about 30 mins. Then form the plates normally with a normal forming charge (+ = + and - = -)
- Note 4: Use Mix 1, 2, or 3
- Process: Charge. Empty acid. Let dry (some say). Add mix. Reverse Charge. Charge/Discharge few times to form crystals.

(5) Unformed and uncharged battery newly built with lead and/or a combination of other metal plates.
- Note 1: Lead / Lead oxide battery will need forming charges ie. charge/discharge until oxides are created.
- Note 2: Lead / Zinc will need forming charge ie. charge/discharge until oxides are created.
- Note 3: Not mentioned yet….Iron / Nickel….Lead / Nickel…Nickel / Cadmium.
- Note 4: Use mix 1, 2, 3, 4
- Process: Make plates. Combine plates with insulators. Add mix. Form plates. Charge/Discharge few times to form crystals.


B. The Mix:
Unfortunately there’s no precise mixture explained in clear terms, so I’ve pieced together different mix combo’s as they were disclosed. So pick a battery and mix combo?….I guess it’s up to you to experiment.

Mix 1: Alum and Distilled water. That’s it. Mix to a consistency of the “Alum water” being slippery to the touch. I’ve read ratios of 3 to 1 water to Alum. 10 to 1 water to Alum, and anywhere in between. It is noted to heat the distilled water to around 120f to get all the Alum to mix in well. Do not use tap water!

Mix 2: 60% Alum, 40% SO4 - if you have 200mL to fill the battery you need 120mL Alum solution and 80mL SO4 solution.
For example start with 120mL of distilled water heated to 120F (microwave oven), add the Alum and keep mixing until you get that slippery feeling and all the Alum is dissolved and then add the 80mL of SO4 solution. Use the syringe to put 33mL of the total mix in each cell.

Mix 3: - 3 cups of water - 1 cup of Alum - 1/2 Cup of Sodium Silicate - 1/8 cup SO4 - 1 Tablespoon of Hydrate 9 or 5.
- Mix the Alum and water first.
- Do not let the mixture gel up unless you want to do something else (ie. Paste to plates or create a gel type battery) keep mixing, then just let it sit for a while (I think till crystals start to form?) and then mix and draw the liquid out for the battery. John explained It's not hard to make this mix you can see it forms the crystals when mixing the Alum with the acid, then you stop and mix in the hydrate, and that will then form another crystal.

Mix 4: 50% Alum and 50% Sodium Carbonate. The reaction between the Alum and the Carbonate (exothermic) must stop before adding to the battery. The mix is then watered down after the reaction to be put in the battery. This mix is used in John and Chucks Lead / Zinc cell.



C. Theories/observations/conclusions
1. Plates must be formed properly for the battery to work properly. Also damaged plates will give damaged results.
2. Battery impedance or battery internal resistance is key for determining how well these batteries work.
Branch and John explained a formula to determine this internal battery resistance, and this is how you do it…

Find These Values…
Battery Voltage = ??
Resistor (load) ohms = ??
Battery Voltage Drop over a resistor (load) = ??

Then calculate the internal resistance by using this formula…
Battery Voltage – Battery Voltage Drop = A
A x Resistor Ohms = B
B / Battery Voltage = Battery Internal Resistance.

Example: (using a 12v battery and a 12 ohm resistor with 10.5 volts after the resistor...ie.voltage drop)
12.00 -10.50 = 1.5V
1.5 * 12 Ohms = 18
18 / 12.00 = 1.5 Ohms Internal Resistance

3. There needs to be a “balance” in the mix for the battery to produce good results. A clear way to determine “balance” is not explained in clear terms…Rather the balance is found by experimenting with the mix (more or less of the chemicals) and the battery internal resistance created by the mix. You can try to figure a good combo by looking at the internal resistance, the mix ph, and the discharge charting/tests done on the battery after it's conversion.
4. The mixes are generally noted as acidic. Ph’s between 4 and 7 are noted. What works in one battery doesn't seem to always work in another?? Jury still out on this point.
5. The Alum solution protects the battery plates by crystallizing or keeping the S04 from sulfating the plates. In this regard there seems to be two types of mixes. Ones that crystallizes to protect the battery plates (mix 3?), and ones that don't (mix 1, 2& 4?).
6. Mixing amounts, and clear mixing instructions aren't really given…thus creating confusion around the entire process. Also makes it fun to experiment. Share as much as you feel comfortable with I guess.
7. Safety: acid’s and lead plates can cause health risks….use at own risk…take safety precautions and cleaning practices in mind.
8. Types of plate insulators don't seem to be a big concern except for with the lead/zinc battery as they create dendrites and need a more solid insulator.


D. Where to get parts
Batteries: Where you get your battery really depends how much you can spend, and what size battery you want to convert. Some places to get them are: eBay | Battery Venders/Manufacturers | Craig’s list | Wal-Mart | Canadian Tire | Auto shops | make your own - ie. get metals, form plates, make case | Steal them from your enemies car | etc.

Chemicals:
• Aluminum Ammonium Sulfate (Alum): My Spice Sage | NutsOnline | eBay | pickling stores | stores.photoformulary.com | grocery stores spice isle | various venders online
• Sodium Silicate (grade 40): McMaster-Carr | shop.chemicalstore.com
• Sodium metasilicate pentahydrate or Hydrate 5: Sigma-Aldrich | Ward's
• Sulfuric Acid: Left over from emptied batteries | shop.chemicalstore.com | Auto Stores

Let me know if this is helpful or needs corrections...
cheers.