How to Make a Bedini Crystal Battery

[mareazzurroo]

from this experiment alum chemical reactions produce excess energy that is absorbed by the surroundings causing the temperature to increase.
have you recorded the temperature?

instant cold pack Experiment:
1. Keeping the chemicals separated on opposite sides of a Ziploc bag, add 1 tbsp. of water to one side of the bag and 1 tbsp. of Alum to the other side of the bag.
2. Seal bag tightly while squeezing out any excess air.
3. Allow the water and Alum to mix together. The mixture should get quite cold. (Note: The actual chemical used in Instant Cold Packs is Ammonium nitrate, but Alum is more readily available for this experiment.)

http://www.gscience.org/uploads/reso...heatenergy.pdf

[DanS]

John B., thanks for making this info. on converting batteries to Alum, public. Your videos of the charting during load testing, and then method charging, solar, etc., show what a great "gift" you have given to us.

When I saw your post with the ionic list of chemicals and material, lead, I too saw the unbalance, and with your hint that you already gave the group the idea of what we needed to add to the Alum, I thought of Pentahydrate. I did some homework and found that TSP 90, (not the orig. TSP), has Sodium Silicate Pentahydrate as the base chem.
In your video showing the mixing of the Alum, (I have the right kind), and the "clear liquid", I remember you said the amounts were precisely measured. I got a good idea of how much water to Alum from the video, but was un-sure of if the clear liquid was the pentahydrate dis-solved in distilled water, so I tried that.

I as soon as I mixed the Alum/distilled water and the pentahydrate/d water, I saw a crystal? begin to form in the cup. I did end up with a mix that was a little soupy, (too much water?), but if Im on the right track here, Ill get the lead plates from a gel cell and try to replicate what you are doing, with the pentahydrate and Alum.

Dan S.

[Lidmotor]

Battery building VS battery converting

@John B,
Thanks for the info. I spent hours this morning trying to find lead acid battery plates online. Waste of time. The only place I found them ( I mean JUST the plates) was outside the US and only in large quantity by the ton. It seems that the battery companies really don't want the average guy making his own batteries. Gee I wonder why? Could it be that one could actually make a battery that would not wear out ----if only he had the basic parts????
Anyway your suggestion to just get an old battery and take it apart for the plates seems like the only option if I'm going to "build" a stronger Lead-Alum battery. The better option might be the conversion idea-----and I mean buy a brand new battery and convert it to Alum. Either a flooded battery or a sealed one dissected and rebuilt might make more sense.

I found the red lead on Ebay but it isn't cheap and for just a hobby project it might not be worth it.

I do have a small very old sealed lead acid battery that I might sacrifice. It has been sitting on my boat for about 12 years ---untouched. Sounds like a good candidate for dremel tool surgery.

Lidmotor

[DanS]

Lidmotor, I found that roofers use lead sheeting, called "flashing" in their line of work. You might contact a local firm and ask if you can buy the "scrap" pieces. I know I found the roofers lead flashing "scraps" on Ebay as well. Roofers use pretty pure lead, as they need to form it to valleys, etc.

John B. showed his machined aluminum mold, if you can melt the 99% pure lead ignots from Ebay some how, you can use a aluminum cookie sheet on a heat proof, level surface, and pour the melted lead into that to cool. You can make different thickness'es at will, but not too thick, or you cant cut/saw it into the shape you need.


To all:
Melting lead does require some common sense, the 2 biggest things to remember, is good ventilation, and wear mask when cutting/sawing, and never, ever, introduce lead to the hot lead pot, or even use a ladle to skim off the slag, until you've heated either. Just a small amount of moisture can cause a explosion in the melted lead pot. Dont find out the hard way that melted lead wont stick well to anything but skin.

[Lidmotor]

Thanks. Making the lead plates isn't really the problem though. The problem is getting the surface area you need to really make a strong battery with a good amp hour capacity. That is why the standard lead acid battery plate is a lead grid filled with that oxide stuff. You need all that surface area to get the power that John is showing in the videos. A solid plate won't give you that. The storage capacity just isn't there unless you make a huge battery.

Lidmotor

[John_Bedini]

DanS,
Good Idea to try that chemical I did not do that, I’m not shure that TSP will work the same way. Chuck and I Mixed three different chemicals which we are in the process of figuring out the chemical bonding, it critical in the measurements. Ammonium Aluminum Silicate produce a Gel the trick is to not have it grow and push the case apart. So far it has taken three different chemicals to do this plus the Alum. It must be a safe chemical to handle or I’m not going to do it. I also will not heat anything as the fumes are the killer. Have you measured the PH? It is important to research that chemical as some of them eat lead oxide right of the plates. Chuck and I have seen that with Marcus Reid Batteries. Thank you for posting that

Oh by the way the surface area is the amount of lead oxide, without it no amp hours can be attained in this cell. Same with Lead Acid batteries…...

[Chuck Hupp]

What would the reform process be, I am interested to do that.

Wei, see post 23 in this thread. Johns video shows us making plates from scratch. Red lead is the key to work with the grey sponge lead. You use Sulfuric Acid to form the cells. watch the video...

Chuck H.

[ibedonc]

hi every one I have been watching the works of John for about 15 years , but have not had the time to try some of his stuff , I now have 6kw of solar and want to get started on a battery bank for them , I have designed a sine wave inverter to run off of that bank , and this alum/lead looks very interesting , today I bought a 20ah dry battery from walmart and have 2lb of pure alum, but before I mix it up I am waiting the other chem to be reveiled by John
I will be doing a 120v bank to start and later upto 400v to drive my inverter , would rather use the alum/lead
I work in data center that uses that kind of volt setup for their ups's

also this is my first post here

[DanS]

John B., no, I havent any way to check the ph of the mixture, but I did find the material data sheet. This doesnt look like a good chem. to use with lead.

Material Safety Data Sheet for TSP/90 - Real Milk Paint ®

From the link:

INCOMPATIBLE MATERIALS: Generates heat when mixed with acid. May react with ammonium salt solutions, resulting in evolution of ammonia gas. Flammable hydrogen gas may be produced on contact with aluminum, tin, lead & zinc. Carbon monoxide gas may beproduced on contact with reducing sugars.

pH 012.4 to 12.6 (1% solution)

[k4zep]

Hi John, Lidmotor and all,

First, John, it is great to see you doing your thing. I think you really hit on something good with this ALUM battery. As in everything, time will tell.

Just a short update to let all know how my marine battery conversion is coming along. It is a straight forward conversion. After cleaning, I simply replaced the acid with ALUM, 4 oz to the quart, 1# to the gallon in distilled water. Each charge, discharge cycle it gets better capacity wise.

A few things I have found out and John has already showed us. This big battery needs current in the charging process. I am finding that about 10A is a good charging currentfor this big battery. Last night when my #4 discharge was interrupted and the graph lost, I decided to then start over. I discharged the battery to 0.1VDC, I mean DEAD. Then I put in on my old 10A charger, a picture of the first 30 min or so is here. . The second picture is at 3hours +. Nice charge curve. The third picture is the finish charge curve. Now on discharge.

Interesting things noted on this charge cycle is that when totally discharged, the battery impedance is high, in the first 3-4 min, the current was only about 5 amps as the voltage built up. Around 11.4 volts, the battery kicked in, impedance went down,voltage went down to about 11.0 volts with a bit of an overshoot and then it started its basic linear slow charge curve upwards. At this point it is running about 10 amps in. It will continue this way till it is fully charged where the impedance will start to rise and voltage curve will start rapidly up to 15-16 V but I suspect not much more energy is being added at this point. When it is charged, I'll start a 5 amp (about C-10) discharge and see what we got now. All, this is so simple and it works! I'll put a video here tonight showing the results.

Thanks

Ben K4ZEP

[k4zep]

Hi All,

Here is where I got my ALUM.

http://nuts.com/cookingbaking/leaven...FQQ3nAodRF8AUQ



Very fast shipping.

Ben K4ZEP

[James Milner]

Hi John,
I apologise if this creates any frustration.
I know we have gone over this a bit but can we please go over the Alum chemistry once more. K4zep's site suggests they sell Aluminium sulphate, not ammonium aluminium sulphate.
You want ammonium aluminium sulphate correct?
Secondly, ammonium aluminium sulphate is not readily available here in Australia. We need to order from o/s. But we can get aluminium sulphate, still not easy but we can get it. It is not used here as a pickling agent due to health concerns relating to aluminium ingestion and early onset dementia.
If we cannot get pickling alum, will aluminium sulphate do? It appears our alum is fairly pure. Could a little cloudy ammonia be added so there is a little NH3+ ions in solution?
Maybe someone on the forum with a chemistry or chemical engineering background could help us here?

For interest i include a note from one of our only suppliers here in Australia
Alum is a white crystalline product. It has many trade names including “pearl alum”, “pickle alum”, “papermakers’ alum” etc. It is produced from the treatment of aluminium hydroxide with sulfuric acid. Its most common chemical formula is Al2(SO4)3.18H2O.

To competitively produce a high quality alum it is important to have total control over major raw materials. The most important raw material for alum production is the aluminium hydroxide, as this determines the impurities in the alum produced. With its regional offices in Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore and Thailand, Bisley is the largest supplier of aluminium hydroxide into South East Asia. The ready availability of sulfuric acid in this region ensures our ability to supply high quality alum at very competitive prices. It also allows fast and efficient shipping to most corners of the world.


It may be an annoyingly small detail but like everything you seem to do, the detail is the difference between success and failure.

Thanks

[Branch Gordon]

Has anyone tried making their own lead acid batteries? I found this video, which details how to make a NiFE battery: Live Looping with Ableton and Xbox Kinect - YouTube
I was thinking that instead of the Iron and Nickel plates, just add two lead plates...plus the alum mixture, and make an alum battery instead. Would this work?

Is it the size of the lead plate that affects that voltage produced? So if I build a very large home-made battery, would that be more powerful than one made in a mason jar?

[Branch Gordon]

Oops...nevermind...I just saw John's other video where he makes one from scratch. Plus there is some discussion earlier in this thread.

Disregard haha.

Has anyone tried making their own lead acid batteries? I found this video, which details how to make a NiFE battery: Live Looping with Ableton and Xbox Kinect - YouTube
I was thinking that instead of the Iron and Nickel plates, just add two lead plates...plus the alum mixture, and make an alum battery instead. Would this work?

Is it the size of the lead plate that affects that voltage produced? So if I build a very large home-made battery, would that be more powerful than one made in a mason jar?

[knovos]

Hi to you all, new here and running curves for some day's now. Yes I am a little confused what alum is the right one. I know I red ammonium aluminum sulphate. Thats not what I got from the local store here in the Netherlands. I have a kilo pot potassium aluminum sulphate KAI (SO4)2 12H2O. The powder is like Christal sugar. I spite of this, maybe wrong alum, it works. I made a 12v 42 amp battery empty, neutralized the plates with backing soda + water and put in my 10% alum + distilled water. I am running curves and can get a charge up to 15.6 volt which drops down in rest to 12.45 volts. I have a 100 watt load made with some car bulbs to hit this battery. Have to do some more curves but this is very promising!

Experiment 2: Took another lead acid battery apart with bad cells. Oh man that is a dirty job. The negative plates (41) are usable, the positive plates not. They felt apart as crumbled red lead. Took 2 negative plates, neutralized with backing powder and put them into the alum mixture. Nothing happened after charging. Then, like John says I rubbed some red lead crumble onto both sides of 1 plate and dried them. After charging BINGO! A nice voltage of 1.8 volts after several times of charging and discharging. When I put a 12v car bulb as a load on this two small plates it has a little glow on the bulb threads measuring 0.7 amp with 1.4 volts. Of course the voltage drops but the amps drops slow. What a finding! Thank you John charing all this. With some solar cells it is possible to make a hole battery bank out of crappy lead battery's. You are so inspiring John, you keep me busy this is FUN.

Kind regards,
Knovos.