How to Make a Bedini Crystal Battery

[k4zep]

Hi All,

Well I finally got my "big green" battery to fully charge. I simply forgot how much I had taken out and my 10 Amp charger had a bad diode and was not charging properly. I'll fix it later. It took almost 24 hours @ 2A to do it with a smaller supply/charger. When you really kill a ALUM battery, it doesn't seem to hurt it (might lower capacity for a few cycles) but you really have to put back ALL the energy you took out of it. After a full charge, I did a "normal" discharge from a floating 12.65 VDC (drops immediately to 12.3 VDC under load) down to 10.5VDC and got out 20.13 Amp Hours @ a rate of 5 amps/hour with a measured 220 Watt hours of energy out. Easily could have removed another 100 watt hours of energy if I taken it down another couple volts but didn't want to get into the deep area of the curve. I suspect it will regain another 25-30% with some normal cycles. It is almost recharged now at a higher rate of around 5Ahr rate. The battery is what it is. It works. Now I just wonder how long it will work, number of cycles, etc. What temp range can it work cold wise.

I expected my 5# of ALUM to come today and it didn't......Oh well, there is always tomorrow and eager awaiting John's next video.

Ben K4ZEP

[Lidmotor]

"The battery is what it is. It works."

@ Ben
I agree with you that these old battery conversions are valuable. They are what they are and they work. I used mine again today to run a fan when it got hot and now it is happily charging back up. How long they work probably depends on each battery and the condition that it was in when the conversion took place. A total junk battey (like the one I took apart) is not gonna come back from the dead.

@All
I am still working with the radical idea of using a solid (or semi-solid) crystal in between the plates with no seperator. The idea is still kinda working and I made a video today of the test cell charging and discharging on a solar garden light circuit.

Lead-Alum rechargeable cell---- on solar garden light circuit - YouTube

@Chuch H.
I made an Mg/copper cell like you talked about yesterday and it worked really well.

@John B.
I am thinking about trying to replicate the battery you made that ran the little fan motor for several hours. Nothing that I have built so far comes close to that as far as capacity. A lot of energy was stored in that thing.

Lidmotor

[James Milner]

Lid motor, I checked out your YouTube on this last night. Good work!
Just a thought, I couldn't help wondering when you mentioned needing to soak the crystalline battery in aqueous alum before you could get it working, if mixing in some (soil) water crystals into the molten alum would work? To stop excessive expansion you may need to grind the dry polymer into a powder. When I was looking at the alum specs it should melt at 85 degrees C. Don't know If the polymer may hold up, melt or burn, but one soaking if it works should last a very long time.
Just wish I had the time and $ to play!
Keep up the great work!
James

[John_Bedini]

4 plate Lead Crystal Cell made from an Everstart Wal-Mart Battery

In this video I’m showing a 4 plate Lead Crystal Cell made from an Everstart Wal-Mart Battery, I found that it depends on the number of plates and the surface area of the lead Alum Crystal. I used a pre- manufactured plate system and its case. I have charted these batteries for two days. John Bedini

@ All,
I suggest that you watch this as some of the information you need to do this I try to give as much information as I can. I'm not ready to give the exact formula as I'm looking for a substitute for one of the chemicals.

[John_Bedini]

Some Help

An Answer For BradS and LesK
Aluminum oxide forms very quickly on contact with oxygen ( H2O2), but unlike iron oxide, it remains attached to the aluminum and forms a barrier layer that stops the reaction so the alum will not grow. Next best, the insulators wrong type, should be pours but not too much, Double paper towels, coffee filter paper double. Third best, Charging voltage to low and Oxides not forming correctly. Fourth best answer, Two negative plates already sulfated and you did not reverse the current to drive the sulfate out and then reverse the charge again.The alum battery is a water soluble ionic compound so the only thing that can be mixed with it is a Hydrate Chemical. Batteries, wet cells will leak down if not formed properly. The old wife's tale do not place a storage battery on the cement, it will suck the current out of it. But we all know better then that. I would suspect that the forming is too little and the Alum solution is too weak. Since the Alum Is, Ammonium Aluminum Sulfate it already has (SO4) in it so driving the Sulfate out with current is not going to bother the Formula that much. Adding a Hydrate is just going to lock up the water in the the crystal. Next and foremost is the spacing between the plates very important. This is nothing like a Galvanic cell Where copper can be on one side and zinc on the other side with a salt bridge in-between.
Low charge voltage:
The cells initially had low capacity, so a slow process of "forming" was required to corrode the lead plates for more oxides and longer run times.
Watch this Ionic Bond - YouTube

Watch this Hydrates - YouTube

[k4zep]

Hi John,

Just watched your video. It answered a lot of question and increased my understanding of what you are doing. That was a lot of work! When we work with batteries, time just goes on and on! On your videos, are you using a video edit software or do you have a camera that will pause?

You are going to like that West Mountain analyzer. Mine is an older unit but the new units go down to 10 ma I think in the constant current discharge mode.
It is a great tool. If anyone else out there could use a nice tool that is somewhat cheaper, you might look at this:

"Watt's Up" RC Watt Meter & Power Analyzer WU100 Ver.2 | eBay
It is very accurate and I have had these for several years. You can use your battery as a load or as a source and you therefore can measure Watt hours in and out! Very handy and it
"Tells the Tale" very quickly about what is going on in these circuits.

If you look for power/watt etc. meters on Ebay, their are cheaper versions in the $18 to 30 buck range from China that work (I have a couple cheap ones) but the Watts up is VERY good.

I charged up my "big green" and put it on a 1A discharge rate yesterday and will take it to 1.0 VDC., It will take 30-40+++ hours to discharge at that rate but I want to see the curve of a big battery at a low rate.

Here is the curve after 13.5+ hours, 160Watt Hours.




The next test will be to use a more concentrated water/ALUM mixture and see if this increases capacity.
So the time goes by and I'm learning more and more each day!

Thanks again John for that great video!

Ben K4ZEP

[BrentA929]

I want to take a stab at the compound used to make the paste...

Is it Epsom Salt (MgSO4·7H2O)?


Thanks, Brent

[IndianaBoys]

Is the compound used to make the paste Sodium Polyacrylate?

Thanks,

IndianaBoys

[Lidmotor]

Late night Chemistry study

@John
Thanks for that video and the links to the Youtube Chemistry tutorials. I think that lady talks too fast so I found another guy on Youtube who was easier for me to understand. The end result was that I stayed up until after 2AM watching chemistry videos and learning. Some of these things are critical to understand or one is just blindly mixing chemicals hoping something will happen.

Lidmotor

[ibedonc]

I think I will take back my walmart battery and get a napa after seeing John's last video , I have not done any thing with it yet. waiting on other additives to be released , John if you were going to put together a bank of these , you would want to take them apart and do them like in your video , I want to make a bank that could maybe last the rest of my life 20 - 40 years

[ibedonc]

can someone reply to this to let me know you are seeing my posts please

[k4zep]

can someone reply to this to let me know you are seeing my posts please

Sure I see it!

Ben K4ZEP

[ibedonc]

thanks Ben

[knovos]

Thanks John. That was a fine battery Master Class. It really helps to make good cells.
Knovos.

[LesK]

@John, and all

Thank you for BrightSorm. I am a ways from fully understanding but I did learn a lot.
If I understand correctly Aluminum is an Amophoteric compound and can react as a basic or acid with two different dissociation constants. I think because of this I saw the switching taking place. and this is why we see the impedance changes take place under load on our charting programs. The impedance change is significant! And the pKa or dissociation constant in relation to acidity Can be + or - depending on whether you are in a base or acid. If we had a buffer added to the chemistry then we could develop a hysteresis like in electronics circuits. This literally gives us something like a transistor. and on the charge side we have one impedance and on the discharge side another. With something like an ORP meter we would be able to see the reduction(base) or Oxidation(acid) at the various points. Also changes in electrical output can tell what mode your in. In the second Brightsorm video she talked about hydrates. I think I understand that since we are over saturating the solution we are talking now in different terms in recrystallization. Anyway when it is all said and done. Don't we essentially have a form of transistor that is chemically controlled. And I'll bet there is actually gain involed in the reaction.

This is just my WAG... I really know very little about Chemistry. But I can see the value of being able to do this. Especially when looking at the Watson machine. Or your Tesla switch where in between current dumps power can be pulled out.
I see this as why you showed the recovery time for the battery while pulse charging. I hope any of this makes sense....

Les