How to Make a Bedini Crystal Battery

[k4zep]

Hi John and all,

Enjoyed your next video, I learn something new each time! I lost 35 hours of data with my big battery discharge because I forgot to set the total amount of time to chart the discharge. It quit charting @ 24 hours but
but kept discharging for 36 hours...............and going strong.........Oh well, will do another discharge after I charge it back up.

The more I play with these batteries using constant current charge and constant current discharge the more questions I get on the "Innies" and "Outies".......It takes time to show on a graph but will try to put something up tomorrow. The small battery is doing fine, needs to be cycled a few times and its working voltage is about a volt lower than the big battery but it has a very concentrated solution in it. Possibly that makes the difference in working voltage. I have not worked enough with these type of batteries to know for sure.......All, keep at it, building or testing.

Ben K4ZEP

[Lidmotor]

Cell made from old battery negative plates

@John B. & Chuck

I was able to form up a cell using just the (-) plates that I salvaged out of that terrible old battery that I took apart. It worked just like you showed in your video. My little propeller motor will only run a few minutes but it did prove the point that you can use just the sponge lead plates and form up a rechargeable cell.

Lidmotor

[k4zep]

Hi Lidmotor,

Way to go! Very good work!

Ben K4ZEP

[Lidmotor]

Thanks Ben. I am anxious the see how your new dry battery conversion graphs out. I like the fact that you just left the acid at the store. Remember that line out of that movie--"Badges? We don't need no stinking badges." Well I can just see you at the battery store---Acid? We don't need not stinking acid."

-----Lidmotor

[Branch Gordon]

Hey all! Would this be the compound I am wanting for an alum battery conversion: Photographers' Formulary Ammonium Aluminum Sulfate - 10-0090?

[ibedonc]

Hey all! Would this be the compound I am wanting for an alum battery conversion: Photographers' Formulary Ammonium Aluminum Sulfate - 10-0090?

yes , but they want to much

Aluminum Ammonium Sulfate 2lb Bag (Free Shipping) | eBay

[Brian McNece]

Jonas Taxidermy Supplies in Colorada
5lb 10.50 plus shipping

[k4zep]

Hi All,

I'm doing an interesting experiment with my small 4Ah battery. It is fully charged, settled to around 10.9VDC. I'm charging it at a constant current of 200 Ma for 18 seconds, then discharging it for 18 seconds at a constant current of 200 Ma. Absolute, Square wave from pulse generator driving the SS switch.

Logic would say that as no battery is 100% efficient, it should slowly discharge. The video shows what I am doing and I will post later tonight or tomorrow after a long run what happens with the battery. I am working at the top voltage of the battery in the low impedance area and going up during charge into the NON LINEAR, higher impedance mode. The waveform shows this very plainly.
It is something to think about.

[k4zep]

Thanks Ben. I am anxious the see how your new dry battery conversion graphs out. I like the fact that you just left the acid at the store. Remember that line out of that movie--"Badges? We don't need no stinking badges." Well I can just see you at the battery store---Acid? We don't need not stinking acid."

-----Lidmotor

See my video.....Messing around. The clerk at Advance Auto was surprised when I handed him the acid pack back!
For sure, we don't "need no stinkin badges!". For some reason, the small battery is checking out about a volt lower than the
older "Big Green Battery".... BTW, 2 Ah will boil that big battery like a teakettle when it is fully charged up around 16.5VDC. Of course
when charger removed, it drops to about 12.45 resting with full charge. Drops to about 12.1 to 12.0 with constant current 2 A load. and
does its thing.

Ben

[John_Bedini]

Ben,
That is about right and that is what I would expect to happen. The Alum battery since it was never formed it would stand .7 to 1.1 volt lower as no sulphuric acid is used. I bought one of the Mountain West charger dischargers I have some real good graphs running with this type of battery. I'm only using a load of 80 to 100Ma since that is where I'm going to run the cells. They follow a very strange charge and discharge curve. it does take a while to form the battery. What you have Ben, is a water battery because of the Hydrate in Alum, Hydrate/9 or Hydrate/6 would help on the power of the cell. I'm looking for a battery that works like Solar Lights without the problems the circuits have with the Ni-Cad's, good for one summer battery. I would form the battery very slow at 100 Ma to 300 Max until the voltage level is good. Do a C20 discharge unless you want to see if you can hurt it.
Good Work Ben.

[LesK]

@Ben
That is really some test Ben. looking forward to more of that one.

@John Bedini
Just curious what you meant by a one summer battery.

As for where I am at. I have one battery new never had acid 14ah. Four 22ah (not from walmart!) motorcycle batteries. and Two 28ah Panasonic AGM's That has me very busy getting them cycled.
Only one of the 22ah batteries did not come to life making six batteries that are no longer a loss. So far with each charge the batteries get better. Charge faster and run longer.
This is the first time I have had more charged batteries than discharged.
usually I am always waiting for a battery to get charged for the next test. I don't know if anybody understands what I am saying, but for me this is a big deal....
It's just odd to have batteries waiting to be discharged instead of waiting to get on the charger....

Les

[Aaron Murakami]

Hi All,

Was out at John Bedini's shop today and saw some very incredible developments with crystal batteries. I can't discuss what I saw but I can tell you that the principles of making and breaking water still apply as these are miniature water fuel cells. These new developments are his company's property so I don't think he can share any specifics on them yet.

These concepts are all laid out in Peter Lindemann's Battery Secrets presentation. If you already have it, I'd recommend watching it again very carefully. If you haven't seen it, do yourself a favor and get a copy so you know the basic principles. It lays out the simple principles in easy terms that most experimenters can understand.



That is the MUST HAVE presentation not just for understanding lead acid batteries (which are also water fuel cells in reality) but also for these crystal batteries and the more advanced methods that John is working on out at his shop with Chuck. It is something that nobody has seen before that we know of and it is backed up by plenty of data on the charts as well.

[John_Bedini]

LesK,
Sorry I was just saying that solar lights usually only last one summer including the battery.
Everyone I have investigated has always failed the same way, the battery. Circuits usually keep working until they get wet inside.

[k4zep]

Ben,
That is about right and that is what I would expect to happen. The Alum battery since it was never formed it would stand .7 to 1.1 volt lower as no sulphuric acid is used. I bought one of the Mountain West charger dischargers I have some real good graphs running with this type of battery. I'm only using a load of 80 to 100Ma since that is where I'm going to run the cells. They follow a very strange charge and discharge curve. it does take a while to form the battery. What you have Ben, is a water battery because of the Hydrate in Alum, Hydrate/9 or Hydrate/6 would help on the power of the cell. I'm looking for a battery that works like Solar Lights without the problems the circuits have with the Ni-Cad's, good for one summer battery. I would form the battery very slow at 100 Ma to 300 Max until the voltage level is good. Do a C20 discharge unless you want to see if you can hurt it.
Good Work Ben.

Thanks John,

I can see where your experiments are headed. With a crystal battery, you would have virtually a unlimited number of cycles while being charged from a solar panel and a solar light would last essentially a lifetime discounting nominal physical and electronic failures! I hope it works out and being "Bedini", I have a hunch it will.

I'm still learning about batteries and their impedance changes! I'll research the addition of a hydrate/9 or /6 additive. I think you showed what one of them was in your battery video when you added copper sulphate
to the mix. I'll keep looking, try and find a chemical supply house here in St. Pete, FL. I find it obvious now that the battery even with the high voltage that develops in it during the charge cycle, it is not absorbed and converted @ 100% (Duh)...hence the discharge. This has deviled me for years when working with your units. I have a very definite love/hate relationship with batteries. But I'm still learning. Here is the results of the discharge cycle @ 10 hours, give or take.

I'm going to have to send my discharger off the West Mountain and get it updated to the higher resolution unit. Mine has a bug or two in it but then it is 4-5 years old.

I am continuing the charge/discharge cycles. I removed the charge part of the cycle and let it drop/discharge about a volt and have restarted the cycle to see what happens in the middle of the
low impedance part of the battery. Here is a picture of the start. Notice the discharge single line, then when I add the charge back, you can see the bounce back and the cyclic window and it is very narrow.


I hope I am not boring you fine folk to death with this stuff. I find a picture is worth a thousand words.

Ben

[k4zep]

Forming a new non acid battery

Good morning John,

One question. In my virgin mini Pickle battery that never had acid in it, does it need to be "formed" by reverse charging it for 10 min or so @ about 1 Amp.? Would this help the baseline voltage rise up that volt+ I don't have right now in the battery? I never did a "form" cycle on it. Just started off charging the heck out of it......and settled down now in the C10-20 rates.

Thanks
Ben