How to Make a Bedini Crystal Battery

[John_Bedini]

Branch,
Dump out acid after a full charge, do not use baking soda wrong chemical, just let drain for hour or so add strong mix alum SO4 will lock up in chemical, that's it. Charge and run curves. Battery should be condition after that. I have never used Baking Soda in any of this. Remember what I just said in above post.

Ok...my alum has arrived and I have two small 5AH lead acid batteries I'm going to be converting. See attached photo.

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I just want to confirm the process before I get started. Let me know if I have anything wrong please.

1. Charge up both batteries
2. Empty out acid and dispose of (safely).
3. Flush out with mixture of distilled water and baking soda.
4. Continue to flush out with distilled water until it comes out clear.
5. Let dry upside down for a couple days.
6. Mix up 10% alum/distilled water. Adjust until it has a slippery consistency.
7. Pour Alum/distilled water mixture into the cells.
8. Charge up and discharge a few times to form crystals.
9. Ready to use!

This all sound right? I'm not sure if step 8 is totally accurate...

Also, my alum is not currently in a powder form. Do I need to grind these crystals down, or will they just dissolve in water?

Thanks for any help!

[Branch Gordon]

I will leave baking soda out of it. Was just gonna use to neutralize the acid while flushing it out...but I will do that after it's emptied into whatever container I put it in.

Thanks!

Branch,
Dump out acid after a full charge, do not use baking soda wrong chemical, just let drain for hour or so add strong mix alum SO4 will lock up in chemical, that's it. Charge and run curves. Battery should be condition after that. I have never used Baking Soda in any of this. Remember what I just said in above post.

[Branch Gordon]

One other question...is it better to use old sulfated batteries for conversions, or brand-new batteries?

[John_Bedini]

Branch,
I have always used new batteries, but I always formed them first so that the plate material was active, very important. I do think Ben should have done that first, then changed the solution and started his curves, just like his big battery. I have put allot of work into the Alum Batteries. The only reason I used junk plates was to see if the SO4 was in the plates. The Alum mixture cancels the SO4 (AG) and locks it up in the crystal. Hydrates are the only thing that I know of that does it . When I first did the battery I did wash them out, but I found out you do not need to, the alum is all you need mixed with water. If you use a bad battery do not ask for much. Bad sulfated batteries dried out do not ask for much unless you use the negative plates. I will do some more videos on this as soon as I get some time.

[Lidmotor]

Testing - testing- and more testing.

@All
I have been doing the charge / discharge testing like everybody else and my findings are about the same. I bought the Radio Shack meter that plugs into a computer so I can do the graphing but the connector cable didn't fit my computer. I had to send away for the adapter.

I made a small test cell using some lead oxide (lithrage) pasted into holes drilled into the plates and it really improved the performance. It was a good experiment to prove that you can make a strong cell without ever using sulfric acid.

My motorcycle battery conversion continues to work but I have to make sure not boil off the water with over charging.

Lidmotor

[Branch Gordon]

Thanks John.

Branch,
I have always used new batteries, but I always formed them first so that the plate material was active, very important. I do think Ben should have done that first, then changed the solution and started his curves, just like his big battery. I have put allot of work into the Alum Batteries. The only reason I used junk plates was to see if the SO4 was in the plates. The Alum mixture cancels the SO4 (AG) and locks it up in the crystal. Hydrates are the only thing that I know of that does it . When I first did the battery I did wash them out, but I found out you do not need to, the alum is all you need mixed with water. If you use a bad battery do not ask for much. Bad sulfated batteries dried out do not ask for much unless you use the negative plates. I will do some more videos on this as soon as I get some time.

[John_Bedini]

Branch,
The balanced equation is 2Al + 3H2SO4 --> 3H2 + Al2(SO4)3

Thanks John.

[John_Bedini]

Lidmotor,
Radio Shack has that adapter from serial to USB it's hanging on the rack with the cables.
it for that meter and others.

@All
I have been doing the charge / discharge testing like everybody else and my findings are about the same. I bought the Radio Shack meter that plugs into a computer so I can do the graphing but the connector cable didn't fit my computer. I had to send away for the adapter.

I made a small test cell using some lead oxide (lithrage) pasted into holes drilled into the plates and it really improved the performance. It was a good experiment to prove that you can make a strong cell without ever using sulfric acid.

My motorcycle battery conversion continues to work but I have to make sure not boil off the water with over charging.

Lidmotor

[John_Bedini]

So the final solution is The lead Acid battery is tricked into believing that it has Sulfuric Acid in it, here is the molar mass and Atomic weight.

Aluminum 26.9 Atomic weight Mass percent 15.7 %

Sulfur 32.06 Atomic weight Mass percent 28.11%

Oxygen 15.99 Atomic Weight Mass percent 56.113 %

Number of Atoms AL= 2
S= 3
O= 12

[k4zep]

So the final solution is The lead Acid battery is tricked into believing that it has Sulfuric Acid in it, here is the molar mass and Atomic weight.

Aluminum 26.9 Atomic weight Mass percent 15.7 %

Sulfur 32.06 Atomic weight Mass percent 28.11%

Oxygen 15.99 Atomic Weight Mass percent 56.113 %

Number of Atoms AL= 2
S= 3
O= 12

Hi John, All,

I believe you are right John, My new little battery works but is very weak and my old battery that I brought back with your Renaissance charger work's like a champ had acid in it, I wonder if it would be better if Baking Soda was NOT used in the cleaning process, just a thorough rinsing with distilled water?.

I sent off my West Mountain Radio Discharger yesterday and traded it in for a series 4 upgrade, it should be back in a few days. Sort of naked without it. Working on another little project and will get back to batteries, etc. in a few days. John, you can call me on my cell, 727-418-Sixty Two Hundred any time. Talking about 1 summer LED lights, we have 12 around our pool here at the condo and in the last 9 months since they were put in, two have failed due to corrosion and 2 bad Nicads.

Ben K4ZEP

[James Milner]

Kzep,
When I looked into aluminium sulphate chemistry it is quite unique in that it is capable of hydrolysis to function as a weak acid or a weak base dependant on the ph of the water. Therefore it can form OH- ions (base) or H+ ions. I suspect if you treat the battery with baking soda, which is alkaline that you will form more OH- ions which is not what you want. These will bond ironically with your H+ ions to form more water thereby weakening the ionic medium to be able to conduct current.
We want it neutral to mildly acidic.
This also is part of the reason for using distilled water. Most tap water carries dissolved minerals and is likely to be slightly alkaline. The other is that other metal ions can contaminate the plates as when charge goes into the batteries these metal ions take in the e- charges to form solid metal on the plate, thereby rendering that surface area useless.
As John has been saying the surface area is critical for current output.

Hope that helps.
James

[John_Bedini]

James,
You have analyzed the formula correct that is what happens. Since the chemical can switch it's function you want it to be natural, so the chemical can perform it's chemical function >>>> CHRGE
. DIS CHARGE <<<<<
If you balance the Acid with the Alum you will have a very strong battery that will last for many years without failure. I have some curves that prove that. It does not look like a lead acid battery. It can go either way. Ben can fix that battery by balancing the chemical and have a strong battery. You have also analyzed the surface area correct for this type of cell.
"Even if it looks like a lead acid cell it is not", you want a long sustained power curve to zero never hurting the battery. So what this means is that you can let the battery sit at zero without the same sulphation of the plates.

[LesK]

I apologize for my lack of chemical knowledge, if I had a better understanding I could express what I am seeing here much better.
Aluminum is Amphoteric = monkey.... Al reacts as a buffer either acidic or basic with two different dissociation constants.
what I see being said here, Is the chemistry in balance is acting like fulcrum on a seesaw between charge and discharge.
This last component in the chemistry your looking for will not only be moving the fulcrum of the seesaw by simply switching from charge to discharge, but must be the buffer to change the charge impedance vs discharge? charge fast; discharge slow?

I guess it just seems if we could get the electrons out of the way we could get past the seesaw and have a continual ionic flow....no sulfation no galvanic.

Les

[John_Bedini]

LesK,
That is right just like a seesaw the chemical moves between the two so it's not Alum or Acid.
Very important Les. It has to act like a lead acid battery.

[Branch Gordon]

Ok I have my alum battery built. I am leaving my other identical battery as a lead-acid. They were purchased at the same time. So I will be running curves on both. I will charge the lead acid with a conventional charger. I will be charging the alum battery with the R-charge RC-2A12 charger.

Some notes:

1. I had to boil my distilled water to get the alum crystals to break down and dissolve. Made things more difficult. Next time I'm getting this stuff in powder form.
2. I didn't make any precise measurements. I just kept adding until it started to look cloudy, and then I did a finger test like in John's video to see if it was slippery. That's when I stopped.
3. The battery was sitting at 12.16 volts before charging. Hooked it up to the RC-2A12 and it was up to 15.2V within 30 minutes. The charger started flashing indicating it was done, so I disconnected.

Right now I'm discharging it at .20 amps with the CBAIII. It's my first time using the software so hopefully I have it all setup correctly.

How low should I discharge the battery to form it? Once formed, I would like to discharge it to the same voltage that I will be discharging the other lead-acid battery.