How to Make a Bedini Crystal Battery

[John_Bedini]

Branch,
What are you going to take the lead acid to. 10.5 volts? Alum battery will be different with the CBA I would take to about 9 volts.

[Branch Gordon]

Yeah 10.5 volts.

Branch,
What are you going to take the lead acid to. 10.5 volts? Alum battery will be different with the CBA I would take to about 9 volts.

[plengo]

Mr Bedini, what do you mean "Alum battery will be different with the CBA I would take to about 9 volts."? please.

I noticed that with my CBA II when load testing the cell , she became totally erratic in the voltage and took about 1/2 hour for it to stabilize and create the curve smooth the same when I loaded the cell using a motor.

Fausto.

[John_Bedini]

Fausto,
I don't know never had that problem with a alum battery on the cba 1 or the 3.

[11sprials11]

Hi John B, and Chuck
I would like to ask a quick question please. If I convert large 12v lead-acid betteries to Alum would they be able to power say a 1000 watt 12v inverter or larger, I'm working on building an off grid system and I'm trying to decide on the best battery setup for me. Thanks

Also I'm very thankfull to you and the others for sharing this very important work, I'm following along here in the sidelines and I'm having some success. My first conversion worked well and the batt. has a standing voltage of 12.47 and great current!
Thanks again Brad

[k4zep]

Mr Bedini, what do you mean "Alum battery will be different with the CBA I would take to about 9 volts."? please.

I noticed that with my CBA II when load testing the cell , she became totally erratic in the voltage and took about 1/2 hour for it to stabilize and create the curve smooth the same when I loaded the cell using a motor.

Fausto.

Hi Fausto,

At times, I had that problem of erratic trace with the CBA II when I first started a discharge, I think it might have to do with bubbles on the plates, don't know for sure, Make sure the connections to battery are secure and tap the battery gently to get rid of any bubbles on the plates....

Ben K4ZEP

[John_Bedini]

@All,
That discharger wants to hold a constant current. The cells will generate noise because of the bubbling, So all you do is add a capacitor across the battery under load test it does not bother a thing to do that. Crystal batteries do generate noise as you can see from my early videos from the Earth Light Group. Again I will say that you must balance the Alum solution to work correctly in a conversion. The chemical is neither SO4 or (NH4)Al(SO4)2·12H2O and must be balanced to work correct in a lead battery. As can be seen in the next video the water in the cell is locked up in the Alum Hydrate Crystal. During a discharge condition it's using the water and building a crystal between the plates, but a conductive one that will release the water again, and this is how it switches between charge and discharge.

[Branch Gordon]

John B,

If the alum mixture is incorrect once poured into a lead battery, are you then stuck with it if it's wrong?

What are some indications that the mixture is correct? On the flip-side, what are some indications that the mixture is incorrect?

Is the mix going to be different for every battery?

I would just hate to buy an expensive high AH battery to convert...get the mix wrong, and then be out a battery...

[John_Bedini]

Branch,
You will know that during discharge, and your not stuck as you can add to the mixture to balance it. As I said before Alum is made with Sulfuric Acid so if the balance is off some SO4 may be added . I know it's not that easy to do the chemistry it's only going to be off by two or three, no big deal. The next video will explain some of that of how it is locked up in the chemical. I have tried other things but the chemistry only will work one way Alum and a Hydrate /5 /9 will just add more water if you add it. Here is the thing you want to understand, you do not want to form Lead sulfate on the plates, you want the Crystal to lock that up so you will find none. That is what the balance will do if correct, it's like a switch.

[plengo]

@John Bedini,

would you disclose what is the formula you are using for the mix? I know it is alum but what else?

I am also running a week long charge/discharge over one cell and I will post very soon the chart.

Many thanks,

Fausto.

[Branch Gordon]

That's good that I wouldn't be stuck. I'm not sure I follow you though on adding to balance. Bear with me as I haven't dealt with any chemistry since high school (14 years ago).

I looked up SO4 because I didn't know what that was. It's sulfate...but where do you get it from? Do you scrape it off of an old battery? To add it, would I just drop it right into the cells, or would I need to dump out the mixture and add the sulfate there before putting it back in?

Another question...if I am using the RC-2A12 to charge the battery, won't that prevent sulfation regardless of my mixture? I thought that was a function of the charger was to keep a battery from sulfating.

Thanks for your answers so far. Very helpful.

Branch,
You will know that during discharge, and your not stuck as you can add to the mixture to balance it. As I said before Alum is made with Sulfuric Acid so if the balance is off some SO4 may be added . I know it's not that easy to do the chemistry it's only going to be off by two or three, no big deal. The next video will explain some of that of how it is locked up in the chemical. I have tried other things but the chemistry only will work one way Alum and a Hydrate /5 /9 will just add more water if you add it. Here is the thing you want to understand, you do not want to form Lead sulfate on the plates, you want the Crystal to lock that up so you will find none. That is what the balance will do if correct, it's like a switch.

[LesK]

That's the little monkey again... ha ha... good to laugh once in a while...

I have discovered with several of my batteries, and in particular the larger AH rated ones. I reverse my water from lead acid. If I add water before charging then it overflows under charge. I find the best time to add water is before discharge.
Is this right or is this an indication of an improper mixture.. I did flush these with Baking soda before I knew better.....

Les

Branch,
You will know that during discharge, and your not stuck as you can add to the mixture to balance it. As I said before Alum is made with Sulfuric Acid so if the balance is off some SO4 may be added . I know it's not that easy to do the chemistry it's only going to be off by two or three, no big deal. The next video will explain some of that of how it is locked up in the chemical. I have tried other things but the chemistry only will work one way Alum and a Hydrate /5 /9 will just add more water if you add it. Here is the thing you want to understand, you do not want to form Lead sulfate on the plates, you want the Crystal to lock that up so you will find none. That is what the balance will do if correct, it's like a switch.

[John_Bedini]

LesK
That little monkey again, well if you understand the chemical the monkey does not exists. So what did you do Les?.
In talking to Lidmotor today he has made a lead plate cell sheet lead and some oxide lead PbO and that cell is working fine and getting stronger.
I have noticed the same thing with what Chuck and I have made. So Les how can I help you so that monkey goes away forever?
The one thing I found out is you can not just stab at this. Maybe I should again do another video on how to convert the battery when it has had Acid in it. I'm hoping Lidmotor will do another video on what he has done, because it just can't work for me and not you. All batteries are different so I just can't give you a mix to dump in it. Les the chemical is a Hydrate it means that it locks up the water during discharge the water goes away into crystal form, so it stops the sulfating of the plates when current is applied to charge the water will come back out causing your battery to overflow, because you have added water. Baking Soda should not be used at all. I have never done that to any of my batteries. I'm concerned Les about what is going wrong, I'm not having the same problems with any of the cell I'm making, so what could I be doing different? The Baking Soda will not come back out so it sticks to everything blocking the flow in the plates. So how Can I help you to end the Monkey that is pulling the switch on you?

[LesK]

John,
Well, so much for my sense of humor... I sent Chuck a pm with a what I thought was really funny as well... guess I am just weird!
Sorry about the misunderstanding, No monkey problem... I was just talking about switching between charge and discharge and how the material of the lead changes and the ionic reactions etc. as best I can understand.
Even abused with Baking soda these are the most amazing things to see happen. my Alum should be here tomorrow so my next project will be to convert my new 850 CCA batteries, as I feel very confident in what you have taught us here.
Especially since I have been having such good experiences with this. So my apologies for poor communication. But truly John, I am having a blast with this, and a lot of success.

The water, as you just confirmed, is working exactly as you just described. I also wanted to be able to parallel batteries. But I can see that getting the chemistry right on old batteries is going to be way to difficult. Sulfated batteries are nice to try and learn from but....

Also, have you seen lasersaber's new 3.0 joule ringer? I thought that would work amazingly well with these batteries.


Les

LesK
That little monkey again, well if you understand the chemical the monkey does not exists. So what did you do Les?.
In talking to Lidmotor today he has made a lead plate cell sheet lead and some oxide lead PbO and that cell is working fine and getting stronger.
I have noticed the same thing with what Chuck and I have made. So Les how can I help you so that monkey goes away forever?
The one thing I found out is you can not just stab at this. Maybe I should again do another video on how to convert the battery when it has had Acid in it. I'm hoping Lidmotor will do another video on what he has done, because it just can't work for me and not you. All batteries are different so I just can't give you a mix to dump in it. Les the chemical is a Hydrate it means that it locks up the water during discharge the water goes away into crystal form, so it stops the sulfating of the plates when current is applied to charge the water will come back out causing your battery to overflow, because you have added water. Baking Soda should not be used at all. I have never done that to any of my batteries. I'm concerned Les about what is going wrong, I'm not having the same problems with any of the cell I'm making, so what could I be doing different? The Baking Soda will not come back out so it sticks to everything blocking the flow in the plates. So how Can I help you to end the Monkey that is pulling the switch on you?

[John_Bedini]

LesK,
No I understand all that but I thought you were have some problem with that monkey.
Maybe I'm to serious about trying to get everybody to have success at something here. I know I could not get anywhere with the earth lights. I'm sorry but that monkey has been on my back for a long time in this field. Sorry Les.