How to Make a Bedini Crystal Battery

[nickle989]

John B, thanks.

Nice approach on the zeolite.

If you like to see something interesting to the "perfect gas - free energy" in some old chemistry books. Take the cell once it is conditioned and place it in sealed pressure vessol, with a pressure guage, watch your voltage / amperage with a load on and watch your preasure guage ... you will need one maybe at most 0-5lb. Cheers

[John_Bedini]

LesK,
This math will get you in the ballpark, but the professor that posted this a long time ago has made an error with the numbers. If the resistance is 500 ohms then the impedance is 5.1 ohms, how did I get this I looked at the B&K witch says something much different with this battery. Most engineers have a junk box for making simple circuits. You can just pick a resistor and say that will work and you will be close enough. The final circuits must be balanced in the end. I have always just looked at the standing voltage and just as the curve starts to drop by loading with a resistor that would be where I would want to work and that is around 330 ohms. Way too high for some power sucking 12 volt circuits. Your right its not 2.4 ohms it's 24 ohms if you plug the numbers into that my load is 12 ohms plug that in the masters equation from the university where he teaches . It's true that it will balance between the battery and the load. My B&K is saying 233 ohms It's a very expensive analyzer for batteries, lead acid. This battery is not lead acid even if it has lead plates. it's a lead Alkaline battery with a much different impedance in what it can handle for a load. You can see it wants to stand at 10.50 volts and will supply current all the way down, a Lead Acid battery would be dead at that level. A car battery is dead at 12 volts the only power you can have is .34 volts because it's in a charged condition and will stand at 12.34V some at 12.65V so you can only have the .65 volts until the battery is dead at 12V. You can push this if you want, down to 10.50 but the battery will be damaged, it's just the way lead acid works. Deep cycle batteries are very different in the way they work. Not one person should be having a problem with a simple SG machine if you have just understood what I said here. Most SG machines should not be running at over 120 Ma. The Ferris Wheel Energizer was running at 1.2 amps for a 800 pound machine. and a wheel weight of 600 pounds. Most people do not balance things out with the SG They look at current as the big savior to the machine, it's not. But a little about batteries.

[trancedrum]

Up date Alum battery

Hi everybody,
a quick up date for my alum conversion battery.

Thank you very much John for the math and the last video for the mix,appreciate a lot your total involvement.
I will apply the change in light of the new information ,about impedance ecc.
I wont to get these right ,now I am playing catching up like always,but the result are better and better.

Saluti Ralph

[John_Bedini]

Ralph,
That is good work, keep it up you will get it all working.

[Branch Gordon]

Short video...only around a minute. Showing the end of my recent curve. This was pulling around 290mA for about 41 hours. Interesting note...after I shut off the video recorder, I unhooked the CBA III, and my LEDs popped back on. Not sure if that means the CBA III is pulling a little from the battery to chart?

PH tester on the way. Will also be calculating impedance and adjusting resistance appropriately.

John B...I have the B&K 600 model. Is that much different than the 601? Can I use it to calculate the impedance?

[John_Bedini]

Branch,
I have a 600 it is not the same analyzer as the 601, 601 works down to the levels of the battery below 10.50 volts you could try but I think your lowest AMP Hr setting is 7, 601 it is 2 plus impedance measurement.
So you got about what 41 hrs?

[Branch Gordon]

Yeah around 41 hours. I have each of my LEDs running on the end of a 470 ohm resistor.

I'm gonna try and calculate the battery impedance here shortly...I'll post what that is.

I noticed that I have zeolite deposits around the caps as I charge it up.

Branch,
I have a 600 it is not the same analyzer as the 601, 601 works down to the levels of the battery below 10.50 volts you could try but I think your lowest AMP Hr setting is 7, 601 it is 2 plus impedance measurement.
So you got about what 41 hrs?

[Branch Gordon]

My internal resistance test:

Open circuit voltage: 12.94
Resistor: 470 ohms (464 on the DMM)
Voltage drop: .3V

Rbatt = 0.3*(464/(0.3+12.94))

Internal resistance equals 10.51 ohms.

Here's a video showing how I did this. Let me know if I didn't do it right. I said the voltage under load in the video is 12.89...but you will see when you watch it that it's 12.91 when it starts out.

[LesK]

John,
You said a lot here. I can see I have some homework to do.... I know what you mean, and it is hard to teach the teacher. The project I mention below, I hope to serve just such a purpose.

I am just winding the coils for a six coil machine based on Ralph's. As I understand from John K, it was run with an alum battery.
that is part of why I was motivated to build yet another machine. I have some of these Alpha Cells that are rated at 25 amps 12 volt @ 160minutes down to 1.75 volts.
AlphaCell RE Top Terminal - Alpha.com

I have a couple that still work but about six of them don't, so I was thinking of tearing them down to make crystal cells to run the six coil. The plates I suspect are thick. and lots of surface.

Les

LesK,
This math will get you in the ballpark, but the professor that posted this a long time ago has made an error with the numbers. If the resistance is 500 ohms then the impedance is 5.1 ohms, how did I get this I looked at the B&K witch says something much different with this battery. Most engineers have a junk box for making simple circuits. You can just pick a resistor and say that will work and you will be close enough. The final circuits must be balanced in the end. I have always just looked at the standing voltage and just as the curve starts to drop by loading with a resistor that would be where I would want to work and that is around 330 ohms. Way too high for some power sucking 12 volt circuits. Your right its not 2.4 ohms it's 24 ohms if you plug the numbers into that my load is 12 ohms plug that in the masters equation from the university where he teaches . It's true that it will balance between the battery and the load. My B&K is saying 233 ohms It's a very expensive analyzer for batteries, lead acid. This battery is not lead acid even if it has lead plates. it's a lead Alkaline battery with a much different impedance in what it can handle for a load. You can see it wants to stand at 10.50 volts and will supply current all the way down, a Lead Acid battery would be dead at that level. A car battery is dead at 12 volts the only power you can have is .34 volts because it's in a charged condition and will stand at 12.34V some at 12.65V so you can only have the .65 volts until the battery is dead at 12V. You can push this if you want, down to 10.50 but the battery will be damaged, it's just the way lead acid works. Deep cycle batteries are very different in the way they work. Not one person should be having a problem with a simple SG machine if you have just understood what I said here. Most SG machines should not be running at over 120 Ma. The Ferris Wheel Energizer was running at 1.2 amps for a 800 pound machine. and a wheel weight of 600 pounds. Most people do not balance things out with the SG They look at current as the big savior to the machine, it's not. But a little about batteries.

[John_Bedini]

Branch,
Been playing around with a way to make it real easy to find internal R
How about this, it is much easier.
Your Battery:
V Batt= 12.94
V Drop Batt = 12.89
Your resistor 464 Ohms

12.94 - 12.89 = .05
.05 * 464 = 232
232 / 12.94 = 17.9 Ohms internal R


My Battery
12.00 -10.50 = 1.5V
1.5 * 12 Ohms = 18
18 / 12.00 = 1.5 Ohms Internal R

My Lead Acid Motor Cycle Battery
12.65 - 12.63 = .02
.02 * 12 Ohms = .24
.24 / 12.65 = .018 Ohms internal R

My Crystal Cell (Mag /Copper Cell)
1.2 -.9 =.3
.3 * 680 Ohms = 204
204 / 1.2 = 170 Ohms Internal R

My Deep Cycle
12.34 -12.33 = ..01
.01 * 12 Ohms = .12
.12 / 12.34 = .00972 Ohms internal R

Just testing and it seems to work.

[Branch Gordon]

JB-

That looks good, but your math is slightly off on my battery.

.05 * 464 = 23.2 not 232. My voltage drop was actually .03 also as I noticed later when watching the video closely. The camera caught it but I didn't.

So .03 * 464 = 13.92
13.92 / 12.94 = 1.075 internal resistance.

This sound right?

Branch,
Been playing around with a way to make it real easy to find internal R
How about this, it is much easier.
Your Battery:
V Batt= 12.94
V Drop Batt = 12.89
Your resistor 464 Ohms

12.94 - 12.89 = .05
.05 * 464 = 232
232 / 12.94 = 17.9 Ohms internal R


My Battery
12.00 -10.50 = 1.5V
1.5 * 12 Ohms = 18
18 / 12.00 = 1.5 Ohms Internal R

My Lead Acid Motor Cycle Battery
12.65 - 12.63 = .02
.02 * 12 Ohms = .24
.24 / 12.65 = .018 Ohms internal R

My Crystal Cell (Mag /Copper Cell)
1.2 -.9 =.3
.3 * 680 Ohms = 204
204 / 1.2 = 170 Ohms Internal R

My Deep Cycle
12.34 -12.33 = ..01
.01 * 12 Ohms = .12
.12 / 12.34 = .00972 Ohms internal R

Just testing and it seems to work.

[John_Bedini]

Branch,
The reason I put this up is to show what the 601 tester is doing with it's loads/ math. Yes I did catch it on your video. I just wanted to try the numbers to see. Yes your right on the correction. I would like to get the batteries down to .5 or lower, so I'm going to work on the mix more for this battery.

[Branch Gordon]

Thanks for posting the math....very helpful.

Can I bounce my line of thought off of you and maybe you can let me know if I am on the right track with my thinking?

From what I have recently read about water PH, a value a 7 is considered "neutral". Below that is acidic and above that is alkaline. I also know now that sulfuric acid has a very low resistance. So if I were to have a PH of 8.1, adding more sulfuric acid would lower my PH and also lower the internal resistance in the battery. Is this all correct?

I see the zeolite deposits on my battery caps. Does any of that dissolve in the water? Seems like that would throw off the PH...

[John_Bedini]

Branch,
Yes that is right so you can see it is a very fine balance. Collect that Zeolite and then mix it with water and look at the PH when you get your meter. My ph is running around 6.8 to 7 I would like to lower that a little to get a little lower impedance. I have Car Batteries converted to Alum that have been sitting here for years and still working excellent, better then the Lead acid which are all dead and cant be charged.
@LesK,
Yes We did run a Alum battery at the show it was a converted Napa battery. It was running the primary on Ralph's machine it was no problem at all supplying current. The machine ran all day charging a lead acid battery. I'm waiting for the new Kit SG so I can post a how to do it video on that machine. I already told everybody it must use the correct magnets and not cost over $ 500.00 it's a 9 circuit machine. I do not want anybody to run around looking for parts. John K watched how I adjusted the machine.

[LesK]

Thanks John,
I don't want to vary from the purpose here but when you say use the correct magnets, I now wonder if I got the right ones. They are just off ebay ceramic #8 new.
I know you have stated many times briggs and straton #8 ceramics but I could never find those.

Also I am catching up here as I made the mistake of making far to many batteries.... The variation is giving me a great view but hard to keep up with everything.
On the old Willard batteries that you converted with only Alum and distilled water is that correct?
and I also want to note that the motorcycle batteries are rated at the 10hr rate. not the 20hr like the larger deep cycle. just thought I would mention it as we are getting into the math it may make a difference.

Les