The SG Radiant Oscillator

[Gary Hammond]

Hi RS,

Hi,
...................
JB has shown the Transistor Negative Current Turn On Wave Form on one of his web pages (I think the one with Grabrial Kron)
.................................

Are these pages still available anywhere? I haven't been able to find them since the old icehouse pages were taken down.

[RS_]

I was not able to locate that web page, maybe Aaron or Tom has a link to the Kron pages where that current wave form is posted

[Faraday88]

Hi RS,



Are these pages still available anywhere? I haven't been able to find them since the old icehouse pages were taken down.

Hey Gary,

Here are all the old website for you:http://emediapress.com/johnbedini/icehouse.net/john1/
http://emediapress.com/johnbedini/icehouse.net/john34/
http://emediapress.com/johnbedini/johnbedini.net/
http://emediapress.com/johnbedini/johnbedini.net/

Rgds,
Faraday88.

[Faraday88]

Hi,

One of the things about the differences between the forced trigger, and the free running trigger with a rotor, is the signal shape.

A rotor trigger strand makes the transistor go into a negative current flow through the transistor right at turn on, thus having the full source voltage across the Coil for a very much longer time period, until forward current flow happens. This opens up the "reaction cross section" (think the Standard Math that integrates the Polyting flow as a circle, now integrating the Polyting flow over an ellipse, that has more surface area to collect the Heaviside current flow) so that the coil can capture more of the Heaviside flow, during turn on while there is negative current flow through the transistor, and then have a very much Higher V Spike at turn off.

It is very hard to get a forced trigger to have the correct Wave form, to have the negative current flow period in the transistor at turn on. This is why JB preferred the Rotor versions to the solid state versions.

JB has shown the Transistor Negative Current Turn On Wave Form on one of his web pages (I think the one with Grabrial Kron)

Most of the transistor manufactures do their darnedest to get rid of the Negative current flow at turn on phenomenon, and try to use fly back diodes, etc... to clamp down the Turn Off Spike, and is why JB recommends certain part number transistors for his various versions of his circuits....

Hi RS,
Thanks for your valuable inputs on this.. just some of my understandings of the Patent''Circuits and related methods of Charging a Battery''
Refering to the fig:3 in the patent, apparently this topology is common for SSG in Rotored machine and SG in the forced triggered mode. However, the diode 54 plays a vital role in the operation of the forced trigger, the reverse polarized diode 54 accross the BE section make use of the depletion layer Capacitance in determining the Frequency of oscillation.(JB and chuck hupp show the cable Oscillator with a capacitor at the position of the diode in their crystal battery video) the patent text also refers the embodiment to be able to oscillate at 60 Hz in some amd at 15KHz in another.
A 60Hz is oscillation is synounmous with a rotored machine.. i wonder if there is any
way to drive the rotored machine in the forceed trigger topology??
Rgd,
Faraday88.

[min2oly]

Hi RS,
Thanks for your valuable inputs on this.. just some of my understandings of the Patent''Circuits and related methods of Charging a Battery''
Refering to the fig:3 in the patent, apparently this topology is common for SSG in Rotored machine and SG in the forced triggered mode. However, the diode 54 plays a vital role in the operation of the forced trigger, the reverse polarized diode 54 accross the BE section make use of the depletion layer Capacitance in determining the Frequency of oscillation.(JB and chuck hupp show the cable Oscillator with a capacitor at the position of the diode in their crystal battery video) the patent text also refers the embodiment to be able to oscillate at 60 Hz in some amd at 15KHz in another.
A 60Hz is oscillation is synounmous with a rotored machine.. i wonder if there is any
way to drive the rotored machine in the forceed trigger topology??
Rgd,
Faraday88.

it's very simple to do so:

[min2oly]

Hi,

One of the things about the differences between the forced trigger, and the free running trigger with a rotor, is the signal shape.

A rotor trigger strand makes the transistor go into a negative current flow through the transistor right at turn on, thus having the full source voltage across the Coil for a very much longer time period, until forward current flow happens. This opens up the "reaction cross section" (think the Standard Math that integrates the Polyting flow as a circle, now integrating the Polyting flow over an ellipse, that has more surface area to collect the Heaviside current flow) so that the coil can capture more of the Heaviside flow, during turn on while there is negative current flow through the transistor, and then have a very much Higher V Spike at turn off.

It is very hard to get a forced trigger to have the correct Wave form, to have the negative current flow period in the transistor at turn on. This is why JB preferred the Rotor versions to the solid state versions.

JB has shown the Transistor Negative Current Turn On Wave Form on one of his web pages (I think the one with Grabrial Kron)

Most of the transistor manufactures do their darnedest to get rid of the Negative current flow at turn on phenomenon, and try to use fly back diodes, etc... to clamp down the Turn Off Spike, and is why JB recommends certain part number transistors for his various versions of his circuits....

my CPD modded "forced trigger" makes the "neg wave" without effort.

[RS_]

Patrick, can you see the negative current flow at turn on, using a current shunt, with a scope across the shunt....?

some units show it real good and a very high neg flow for a long time, some other units show it barely happens.

do not try to look at the voltage across the source while looking at the current flow across the current shunt.... your scope will not like that.....

I have found that some models of hall effect current sensors work good for seeing this neg current effect....

[min2oly]

Patrick, can you see the negative current flow at turn on, using a current shunt, with a scope across the shunt....?

some units show it real good and a very high neg flow for a long time, some other units show it barely happens.

do not try to look at the voltage across the source while looking at the current flow across the current shunt.... your scope will not like that.....

I have found that some models of hall effect current sensors work good for seeing this neg current effect....

How does this look, I have others that show the neg spike more pronounced, have to look for them a bit more.

[RS_]

Patrick,
Nice video, but not quite what I ask for....
Can you see the negative current flow at turn on, using a 5A 75mV current shunt, with a scope across the shunt where you would normally put the current meter? Measure without a meter (just a 75mA volt meter)on the shunt, as your scope is the meter.... Not across the transistor collector / emitter voltage.....

some units show it real good and a very high neg flow for a long time, some other units show it barely happens.

do not try to look at the voltage across the collector / emitter, while looking at the current flow across the 5A 75mA current shunt with a duel channel scope, your scope will not like that.....

I have found that some models of hall effect (non invasive) current sensors work good for seeing this neg transistor current effect, and you can still see the collector / emitter voltage on the other channel....

[RS_]

Faraday,

Unfortunately, none of those links had the Neg current flow through the transistor at turn on Pic.....

[min2oly]

Patrick,
Nice video, but not quite what I ask for....
Can you see the negative current flow at turn on, using a 5A 75mA current shunt, with a scope across the shunt where you would normally put the current meter? Measure without a meter on the shunt, as your scope is the meter.... Not across the transistor collector / emitter voltage.....

some units show it real good and a very high neg flow for a long time, some other units show it barely happens.

do not try to look at the voltage across the collector / emitter, while looking at the current flow across the 5A 75mA current shunt with a duel channel scope, your scope will not like that.....

I have found that some models of hall effect (non invasive) current sensors work good for seeing this neg transistor current effect....

can you show me what you are looking for?

[RS_]

if we can find that one Pic JB has posted.... i can draw the wave form....

[RS_]

oops corrected thanks

[min2oly]

if we can find that one Pic JB has posted.... i can draw the wave form....

I don't think I have ever seen anyone post a negative flow at "turn on" by anyone else including JB.

You mention earlier "some units show it real good and a very high neg flow for a long time, some other units show it barely happens."

can you post a link to one so I can have a better idea?

[RS_]

here is a PDF with a hand drawn current wave form like the one JB posted. hope the PDF works

I also added a Collector / Emitter Voltage wave form for clarification that is not on JB's pic
I would like to find the web page with this current wave form and review what JB was talking about where it is posted