Solid state waveform, current draw

[TruthInZero]

Hi guys,

I've been lurking around for quite some time And there are things which haven't really been addressed openly. Mainly I'm interested in waveforms across the battery and something which was suggested by John, running output positive lead through small gauge coil of many turns and scoping across it. I did this test and all my solid state oscilators show some kind of ring-out after the spike, spike magnitude on collector has almost no effect on little spike on this measuring coil, but ring-out amplitude is much bigger when increasing draw from primary.

My question basically Is, did anyone performed such test and how to determine what kind of input current should solid state oscillators draw, because about half an amp at 12 volts per strand/transistor no problem heat wise and spike just climbs and climbs So what's the limit? Or Its Simple matter where gain in amount of massless charge diminishes compared with increase in primary draw?

Thanks for any kind of advice

[BobZilla]

Hi guys,

I've been lurking around for quite some time And there are things which haven't really been addressed openly. Mainly I'm interested in waveforms across the battery and something which was suggested by John, running output positive lead through small gauge coil of many turns and scoping across it. I did this test and all my solid state oscilators show some kind of ring-out after the spike, spike magnitude on collector has almost no effect on little spike on this measuring coil, but ring-out amplitude is much bigger when increasing draw from primary.

My question basically Is, did anyone performed such test and how to determine what kind of input current should solid state oscillators draw, because about half an amp at 12 volts per strand/transistor no problem heat wise and spike just climbs and climbs So what's the limit? Or Its Simple matter where gain in amount of massless charge diminishes compared with increase in primary draw?

Thanks for any kind of advice

Hello Truth,
Look this is not exactly what you are asking about but I offer it up as something to think about. It is related but whether my message is understood or agreed with is not assured.

On with the statement:
I am going to speak more to the second paragraph of your question. The main factor to consider always whether solid state or mechanical wheel is the inductor. Voltage and current both are components that orchestrate the conductors performance and a third factor which is time. The optimal system is going to set the conditions so that the inductor almost reaches saturation without fully saturating. An inductor is a current limiting device until it reaches saturation, think of a choke on a power supply. We want to bring it almost to saturation but not all the way because once it is saturated we are simply passing current which is wasteful to our goal.

The magnetic field produced in the inductor is displacing the ether around it, creating a potential, I don't mean a voltage potential here. If you go past the point of saturation you are expending energy to prop up that displacement and we want to "pump" that displacement not just prop it up.

Ok so back more to the point, that needed to be said to outline what is happening on the circuit. We can increase current from the source to grow the displacement faster OR we could increase voltage to grow the displacement. Both work hand in hand with each other. Both of those factors are really just different ways of manipulating the third factor I said , Time. The time is really a factor because of the inductors capacitance,or displacement factor depending on how you want to look at it. We are not actually interested in the capacitance of the coil but rather the force at which the ether pumps back to fill the displacement it created . As I said starting off it's about the inductor.

So all of that is a round about way of answering your basic question :

because about half an amp at 12 volts per strand/transistor no problem heat wise and spike just climbs and climbs So what's the limit? Or Its Simple matter where gain in amount of massless charge diminishes compared with increase in primary draw?

Hopefully you will understand what I am pointing out here. It's not a matter of what is the right current, or even the right voltage. It is more about providing the right combination to your inductor to pump it without letting it flow like a valve (over saturation). Of course current or voltage does correlate to your spikes voltage so an increase in current will usually demonstrate an increased spike but that is not the whole picture.

[min2oly]

"Mainly I'm interested in waveforms across the battery"
Truth, addressing this point I would like to add that I believe the waveform of the current into the battery would be more interesting than the voltage (as a result of charging) across the battery terminals. Or in other words, put a shunt on either of the battery posts and read the waveform of the charging current with an oscilloscope across the shunt. This is where any charging spikes will show up.

Your shunt will kill the radiant. Have you investigated different batteries on the charge side to find correlations to what your are seeing?

[TruthInZero]

Have you investigated different batteries on the charge side to find correlations to what your are seeing?

Unfortunately I have limited choices on charge side, mostly starter batteries but spike magnitude on collector Is pretty much the same, waveforms same. Interesting is, that when I use the trick You mentioned, connecting trigger via small cap to base rail, I can get ridiculous magnitude on spikes compared with "normal" feedback via pot, at same draw, but charging doesnt really change, despite switching Is clearly superior, waveforms much sharper.

I'm puzzled

[Bradley Malone]

Truth,

If I am understanding correctly I cam across the just a few days ago....I slid a very fine wire coil down the lead going to the battery so that any current going through it would give me an idea of current going to the battery. the problem is that when hooked across the coil you are making a tank circuit with the capacitance of the probe and the inductance of the coil....so when a pulse of current goes to the battery it causes a voltage (which is what we were looking for) but because of the the tank circuit you create a ring at the resonant frequency of the probe/coil tank. I figured out a way to smooth it out and get a better idea but I did about 15 things and cant remember the exact setup that helped. I believe I used a low pass filter to filter out the high frequency ring or at least some of it and IF I am remembering correctly I believe a 10x probe helped to but I will check and let you know.

[TruthInZero]

Hi Bradley,

I totally forgot about probe capacitance. Still the way our "probing" coil is situated, Its wires-loops are orthogonal to the output lead, so normal induction is suppressed, only thing that couples Is radiant. John said it himself, that the waveform is oscillatory and that this charges the batteries. Could You post some scope shots? I Will try to get some aswell

[Bradley Malone]

Probably will take me a few days but I will try my best. I was coupling inductively the see current which with the setup I am using should be a current pulse followed by radiant from the collapse. I have used it in a very "whatever works" kind of way to be honest I didn't really care about accuracy of the waveform I was mainly looking to just make sure a current pulse was going through to the battery. I somehow have not heard of doing what your doing to see the radiant...could you sketch a simple picture of it or something. I'm trying to understand how it can pick up on no-inductive radiant and make it show anything on an oscope and I am drawing a blank so any further explanation would be greatly appreciated!

[TruthInZero]

Radiant certainly Is inductive, otherwise it wouldn't couple in the system, just not in electromagnetic sense. And I believe that you're doing exactly what I meant, It would ve of interest to compare what rotored energizer produces against solid state and solid state with cpd mod

[TruthInZero]

I'm becoming really puzzled

At this point, i'm pretty sure that oscillatory waveform across probe coil is really caused by LC resonance between coil and probe, but still, its magnitude at the beginning represents radiant pulse around wire, but is this what battery accepts or what is "denied"

Effect of connecting wires impedance is very profound, just connecting second clip lead between diode and the charge positive increases charge rate, but also crossing wires are diminishing it substantially.

Maybe are my batteries just too small to operate correctly with 18 strand oscillator:

[Faraday88]

Radiant certainly Is inductive, otherwise it wouldn't couple in the system, just not in electromagnetic sense. And I believe that you're doing exactly what I meant, It would ve of interest to compare what rotored energizer produces against solid state and solid state with cpd mod

Hi TruthinZero,
The Radiant is both Inductive and Capacitive or say its both Electrostatic and Electromagnetic which ever way to see it. when you use both its is called Full- regauged Radiant system, like in the Bedini patent 6,545,444. there are two Asymmetric emfs that are additive in charging the batteries. 'Charge-Discharge-Charge process of the Capacitor across the Battery and the coil system.
Rgds,
Faraday88.

[TruthInZero]

I have question to anyone who really experienced this kind of waveform

Obviously, this Is just a snapshot of one video of John Bedini presenting radiant oscillator tube, but I have experienced it on pretty much all my setups. I'm talking about that part where transistor turns on and collector voltage goes way negative. Does this present domě negative current or heaviside flow before actual current flow? This happens at certain ranges of base currents-trigger setups, but also depends on impedance of output battery oř anything connected to the output for that matter, input also has effect on this.

Any meaningful thoughts?
Cheers

[John_Koorn]

Hi Truth,

Are you able to see the scope setting on that picture/video?

I've seen this on my setups, but I'd need to quantify what you mean by "way negative" first before I can offer any thoughts.

John K.

[TruthInZero]

Well, my collector voltages, or more exactly voltage across the coil went as much as 3 times above actual source voltage, meaning that when connected for example to regulated 3 volt source, voltage across the coil would reach like 9 volts during turn-on, for like 3-4 microseconds, then it goes back to values which are expected, considering voltage drop across CE.

Cheers

[TruthInZero]

Another thought I have concerns different gauge between trigger wire and power wires. Is it really needed for correct function of SG oscillator? I can imagine that thinner wire for trigger will respond faster with its induced voltage due to its lower self capacitance, which could result in better switching, but is there more to it, do we have to show the "way" where we want that energy go?
Cheers

[TruthInZero]

Hi all,

Has anyone tried scoping across the leads to the charge battery? I mean for example between cathode of diode(s) and charge battery positive?

I have fairly heavy gauge wires going to charge battery but I can scope as much as 10 volts just across that one lead during spike, so in the end I have for example 35 volts across the coil and just 10 volts above battery voltage on terminals, whereas it should be 22 volts(battery voltage+voltage drop of diodes)

Any thoughts appreciated.