Kromrey Disclosure - Bedini SG - Beyond the Advanced Handbook by Peter Lindemann

[Faraday88]

just lucky that it did not kill the Transistor, and just the killed bulb ....

An Incandecent bulb would have high RC time constant so it is a RCD snubber circuit to protect a semiconductor device like the transistor in our case here, R would be used as a bleeder resistor that drains down accumalated Charge in the connected Capacitor.
but these are in the collector circuit.
now, the light bulb being in the trigger circuit (to the base circuit of the transistor),if blows out would mean that the base would also be hit hard!! I use a 2 watt 630/470 Ohm base resistors in my SSG circuits to ensure they withstand the heat dissiapation.. (they run warm to the touch) I think one can use the light bulb in place of the branch(Global) resistor feeding the other resistors.
so a 15W light bulb is appropriate in this position.
Rgds,
Faraday88.

[rdvideo]

Hello all,

I'm back with some questions and pictures about my setup with some things happening that is different than I read. I am using two new deep cycle batteries with a PL rotor and setup from Teslagenx and 8 transistor kit. I am still only using one drive coil, #20 trigger and 4 #18 for my experiments. Right now I am closer than ever to getting this thing going with some experimentation to see what happens. I started out adjusting the coil to find correct spacing for my setup with highest speed and lowest current draw. I think I am at the right spacing of approximately 1/2", similar to what Peter mentioned in the video. Earlier I played with spacing as mentioned earlier here and had two pulses. Now I got it to one pulse consistently, even at startup since I monitor everything from the beginning with scope connected to one coil output. Now to try and add pictures so I can talk about what I have seen so far.




Hope this works, first time doing this here and hope pics display in order as I entered them.

First pic is at highest speed of 780 rpm after adjusting trigger with set coil distance. One pulse that looks similar to brodonh pic but with smaller spike. The scope for this pic is in AC mode and you can see what the scope settings are too. 20v/div shows something positive here in terms of the spike voltage. Then I was curious at adjusting the trigger setting and noticed that the spike started to get bigger with the pulse staying the same. I did not know which way I was turning the pot but ended up at the end of pot and now there was just the 100 ohm base resistor with the highest spike! Doing this, the rpm dropped to 530 rpm, but the pulse is very stable. This must be one of the "sweet spots" of the setup to get a single pulse with a high spike because the current draw at low rpm's is about 2.7 amps where it is 1.2 amp at fastest speed with single pulse! The last pic is of what the battery see's at the + term.

Over the last few days, I had my setup running for a while and then stop it to come back the next day to start it up and see what happens on the e-scope. Starts up at the very beginning as a single pulse with a changing PW which is normal as frequency increases and the spike is the same amplitude as seen in the pic right off the bat!!!

I need to find the "sweet spot" for lower amp draw to continue with project with same results as seen in the pics if not better.

I'll be back...

[Brian McNece]

Hello all,

I'm back with some questions and pictures about my setup with some things happening that is different than I read. I am using two new deep cycle batteries with a PL rotor and setup from Teslagenx and 8 transistor kit. I am still only using one drive coil, #20 trigger and 4 #18 for my experiments. Right now I am closer than ever to getting this thing going with some experimentation to see what happens. I started out adjusting the coil to find correct spacing for my setup with highest speed and lowest current draw. I think I am at the right spacing of approximately 1/2", similar to what Peter mentioned in the video. Earlier I played with spacing as mentioned earlier here and had two pulses. Now I got it to one pulse consistently, even at startup since I monitor everything from the beginning with scope connected to one coil output. Now to try and add pictures so I can talk about what I have seen so far.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]6938[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]6940[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]6939[/ATTACH]

Hope this works, first time doing this here and hope pics display in order as I entered them.

First pic is at highest speed of 780 rpm after adjusting trigger with set coil distance. One pulse that looks similar to brodonh pic but with smaller spike. The scope for this pic is in AC mode and you can see what the scope settings are too. 20v/div shows something positive here in terms of the spike voltage. Then I was curious at adjusting the trigger setting and noticed that the spike started to get bigger with the pulse staying the same. I did not know which way I was turning the pot but ended up at the end of pot and now there was just the 100 ohm base resistor with the highest spike! Doing this, the rpm dropped to 530 rpm, but the pulse is very stable. This must be one of the "sweet spots" of the setup to get a single pulse with a high spike because the current draw at low rpm's is about 2.7 amps where it is 1.2 amp at fastest speed with single pulse! The last pic is of what the battery see's at the + term.

Over the last few days, I had my setup running for a while and then stop it to come back the next day to start it up and see what happens on the e-scope. Starts up at the very beginning as a single pulse with a changing PW which is normal as frequency increases and the spike is the same amplitude as seen in the pic right off the bat!!!

I need to find the "sweet spot" for lower amp draw to continue with project with same results as seen in the pics if not better.

I'll be back...

Someone can correct me if I'm reading this wrong, it looks to me like you are getting around 900 volt spikes. The scope is set for 20 volts per line and you are using a 10X probe. Your scope is showing 4 1/2 divisions which is 90 volts multiplied by the 10x probe. Looks good to me. Keep adjusting for the lower amp draw. Great job.

[RS_]

Sorry Brian, that is not how it works....

If the Scope is set to a 10X probe, and the probe is set to 10X, than it will read 20V per division.......

The 2nd pic shows a 10x scope setting, DC coupling, and 20V per division.

If you measure the spike only from the top of the wave form as normal, it measures aprox 60V

Where the whole wave form P to P measures aprox 90V

This is where i really like my 200Mz PicoScope, because i can set the measurement lines to see the exact voltage's for each part of the wave form....

[rdvideo]

Hi all,

I added the extra 1N4007 diode to the base diode for a two diode drop at the base according to RS setup. The only difference it made was to increase the current draw from 2.7 amps to 3.6 amps with nothing else changed and the scope showed nothing different. The setup starts with a single pulse as before. I have not changed anything else in my setup; doing one thing at a time and taking notes. I have on order the 3060 diode to see what that does to the setup before anything else. I guess it's time to play with coil distance and see what happens. Any suggestion are welcomed...

rdvideo (Richard D)

[RS_]

Hi Richard,

Adding the extra base diode did not increase the Spike...? any time you increase the current, you should have a higher Spike.
use a jumper across one of the diodes on each transistor, and while looking at the scope with the probe on a collector, see how the wave form changes as you jumper diodes...

you should have 1n4001 diodes on the base.....

[rdvideo]

Thanks for the reply RS,

I'll have to get some on order, missed that in your PDF. Have to try this and see what happens.

I have slowed down right now on my project because of a water leak between the well pump and the house. The leak is in the worst place you can think of, under my back deck! Now I have to rip apart my deck so I can fix my water leak and it's in the 90's here.

Happy Fathers day and enjoy the heat in the Midwest...

Richard D.

[Faraday88]

Thanks for the reply RS,

I'll have to get some on order, missed that in your PDF. Have to try this and see what happens.

I have slowed down right now on my project because of a water leak between the good pump and the house. The leak is in the worst place you can think of, under my back deck! Now I have to rip apart my deck so I can fix my water leak and it's in the 90's here.

Happy Fathers day and enjoy the heat in the Midwest...

Richard D.

Wish you all the same !!
Rgds,
Faraday88.

[RS_]

yea I know the feeling... i have a water leak under the concrete of my green house, and it will require digging a 4' deep hole to get to it.... So i just turn off the feed from the mains when not needed, till i can get to it.... and then the house AC died yesterday afternoon.... at least it is going to be mostly cloudy and mid 80's today. i will call and get someone out on Monday.... all ways something messed up and needing fixing......
at least we will be moving to a new place soon......

Happy Fathers Day to all.....

[rdvideo]

Hi RS,

Just thinking about you mentioning about using a 1N4001 diode at the base of the transistor instead of the 1N4007 diode as supplied with the 8 transistor kit that JB put together. The 1N4001 diode is the same diode as the 1N4007 except for the current and voltage. So I see why there was no difference in performance in the circuit. There must be something else going on to see the difference between the two diodes. I will try the 1N4001 diode when I receive them and the MUR3060WTG diodes for the output and replace the 100 ohm base resistor with a 10 ohm resistor and play from there.

The o'scope I use can do the same thing to measure the amplitude but I did not turn the function on and thought anyone in this thread knows how to use an o'scope. Sorry for not turning on the function because I thought it was no needed.

rdvideo

[RS_]

yea, they are the same class of diode, with out hunting some up and measuring them, they may not have the same diode voltage drop.

the 1n4001 has always been the base diode on the SG's / SSG's, and the 1n4007 has always been the output diode on the smaller SSG's. I use the 1n5408 as the output diodes on large SSG's, and sometimes use 3 of them in parallel for the output on larger SSG's....

2 in series on the base should up the spike a good bit.... i see 200V + spikes on my SSG's.....
When using a SCR as a output diode, i can get 300V+ spikes..... (Be wary, This is a tranny killer!!) the SCR acts like a really slow diode..... a really fast diode will have smaller spikes..... it is the delay in conduction, that lets the spike get high enough to kill a tranny, or fill a Cap really fast, if you can control it.......
My work with 1200V IGBT's in a Bedini/Cole H bridge using a SCR FWBR, showed me I could easily get 800 - 900 V spikes, that would fill up a 1 Farad cap pulser, really, really fast........Pulsing a 1 Farad Cap 2 times a second, will Charge a 24V Golf cart or L16 Battery bank really fast....

having that feature on a O Scope is real handy, and your right, most ppl here should be able to read a scope..........

[Faraday88]

yea, they are the same class of diode, with out hunting some up and measuring them, they may not have the same diode voltage drop.

the 1n4001 has always been the base diode on the SG's / SSG's, and the 1n4007 has always been the output diode on the smaller SSG's. I use the 1n5408 as the output diodes on large SSG's, and sometimes use 3 of them in parallel for the output on larger SSG's....

2 in series on the base should up the spike a good bit.... i see 200V + spikes on my SSG's.....
When using a SCR as a output diode, i can get 300V+ spikes..... (Be wary, This is a tranny killer!!) the SCR acts like a really slow diode..... a really fast diode will have smaller spikes..... it is the delay in conduction, that lets the spike get high enough to kill a tranny, or fill a Cap really fast, if you can control it.......
My work with 1200V IGBT's in a Bedini/Cole H bridge using a SCR FWBR, showed me I could easily get 800 - 900 V spikes, that would fill up a 1 Farad cap pulser, really, really fast........Pulsing a 1 Farad Cap 2 times a second, will Charge a 24V Golf cart or L16 Battery bank really fast....

having that feature on a O Scope is real handy, and your right, most ppl here should be able to read a scope..........

Hi RS,
Interesting!! wonder how do you commutate the SCR to an SSG spike!
I have read about the Synchronous rectification,
but then a MOSFET is a better candidate for that, but yet how would that imply for a Spike like the SSG?
Rgds,
Faraday88.

[RS_]

This is the SSG with the SCR output. I do not recommend this circuit for anyone to build.

I show it here for reference only....... A slow output Diode will have a higher spike....... 300V + will make the Neons start to glow.....

It WILL KILL Transistors if not controlled correctly per the instructions on the Schematic...!
for some reason it turned out fuzzy

[rdvideo]

OK, let's try again, my anger got to me with to many problems at home at same time, sorry about that.

I changed the base diode from the 1N4007 to a 1N4001 with two in series. I also changed the base resistor to 12 ohm as RS mentioned in his PDF. Not a good thing to do with my setup it seems. With both changes the current draw went up 1 amp and trying out new setup, fried the 1 k pot that was suppose to be a 5w pot and the same one that Peter used in his setup for the SG book series setup. Until a new pot arrives this weekend, I changed the base resistor back to 100 ohm. I am trying to adjust the coil to rotor spacing to get the highest speed according to what Peter talked about in the SG books. Now I see why he mentioned in the book about adjusting the coil in small increments. After adjusting the coil to a certain point, I note what the speed is after a few minutes. Then I start to move it away from the rotor and see what is happening to the speed. I see rpm's slowly going down, so I adjust the other direction with small movements as the speed slowly goes up. I go back and forth around the spot to stay with rpm's going up. I agree with Peter what was mentioned in the that you must start fine tuning with a fully charged primary battery.

I need some help here from those that have systems going better than what I have. I'm starting with a new version that Peter started and never completed for open-source due to unexpected situations. Who else right now uses the expanded core coil form and gets radiant spikes over 100 volts? Right now I get about 70v radiant spikes with a 100 ohm base resistor at 3.5 amp draw and about 570 rpm. I have monitored the collector of one transistor while playing with coil distance to rotor and do not notice any difference in amplitude of the radiant spike and pulse except for the difference in frequency. Each transistor output is the same so I can assume that there is no problem with the transistors. I have access to a transistor curve tracer so I can match transistors and check them to make sure they are up to their specs if needed.

When trigger is tuned for lowest current draw, I get a 2.7 amp draw and the radiant spike drops by about 1/3 amount which there is a picture in a previous post. I keep referring to DVD Part 37 since JB explains the operation of the SSG with a single filar coil to a multi-filar coil and draws pictures to help explain things. He drew a picture of what you should see at the collector of the transistor, a 12v square wave pulse with a radiant spike 300v or more and never talked about fine tuning anything, just theory. The pulse I see is about 22v that dwindles down to 12v than off. I do not know what to do to get a larger spike since I've played with what I can and using the SSG books and JB's DVDs. I can get more rpm's by adjusting the base 1k pot, but no increase of the spike amplitude.

I just received my replacement 1k pot and some 1n5408 diodes as RS uses. Now with having the 1n5408 and the 3060 diodes, I need a new ckt board to work with. I can make the 1n5408 diodes work on the 8-transistor PCB but need something different for the 3060 diodes in order to keep connections short. I really need to finish watching the SG Part 33 and 34 to see what is discussed and takes time to do. Any more input is welcomed because I will get this thing working one way or another. Just need some more input. I have some parts to add to ckt and take it from there.

Thanks for your time,

Richard D.

[John_Koorn]

Richard, in my experience there's no difference in the base diode. We (TeslagenX) ship the kits with 1N4007s because JB said it makes no difference as well. As for output diodes, I've never had to use anything higher than the 1N4007 unless running the SSG at more than 12V.

I think you already had your machine running fine at "1.2 amp at fastest speed with single pulse". That's what I'd expect for a single coil setup.

Don't be too concerned about the spike voltage. IMO digital scopes don't capture it properly anyway. Ideally, if the spike happened quick enough, you wouldn't see it at all anyway.

Hope this helps...

John K.