Positive effects of negative ions

[blackchisel97]

I've been testing my NIG for the past 24hrs. Circuit runs cool even at 32VDC. I found small wall power supply from salvaged printer. It has 16V and 32VDC output. On 32V ionic wind blows the candle from almost 1m (3ft) away. I finally managed to take a shot in the dark to show glowing tips of the negative electrodes - needles.


Thanks
Vtech

[ZPDM]

Vtech,

Congratulatons on a well developed and quickly built project, very cool. I had a chance to glance at the references you provided and to spend a little time again looking in the medical literature. There is also really surprisingly little in the literature on negative ions in the air. I'll say a few things but please keep in mind this is entirely speculative/framework type stuff based from a couple/few hours reading.

First is what are we making with an ion generator? Leaving aside any etheric field, frequency modulated effects (which I would have to suppose might also possibly be present) and focusing on the ions I suppose it is primarily oxygen ions, though I don't know maybe other components in air also ionize and/or the organic components in the air ionize directly without any intermediary. Also there is the ozone component which if I understand you correctly is not entirely avoidable but is related to the degree of corona present. So one is what do the ions do when first hitting the air as well as the issue of concentration?

Second is what does it do healthwise? There are a few areas that have been studied. First is the decrease in transmission of infectious disease, I suspect this is primarily related to the ionziation and subsequent deposition of pathogens floating in the air. There have been two studies looking at the transmission of a chicken virus in chicken coops. Negative ionization decreased spread of the virus in both studies, in one they note however, that transmission was not much effected within a single chicken cage but was greatly decreased cage to cage, which might go along with this being an effect of virus particles no longer floating as well in the air. An animal study looked at guinea pigs exposed to tuberculosis (a much larger pathogen) and found negative ionization about equal to UV light for preventing disease transmission. Recently a group did a test tube study and attempted to isolate the ionic effects from electric effects and ozone effects. While there is a distinct possibility for bias in any revenue threatening treatment, this study concluded that any bacteriacidal effects were mediated almost entirely by ozone. Ozone is harmful to humans so there is a safety concern here. As I'll get to in a moment though, there may also be effects of negative ions on the host even if no pronounced effect on pathogens. There have been other studies showing a decrease in infectious transmission from ion generation. Similarly I would guess that the effects reported related to asthma might be secondary to clearing of particulate matter from the air, though there have also been reported effects on air way passage cells' ciliary action.

Second is the effect on depression. It is sometimes difficult to properly pin down endpoints in these type studies and to design the study well, however there have been at least 2 or 3 studies showing a beneficial effect in depression and one I believe showing an improvement in concentration. While not overwhelming still likely better than anti-depressants for adolescents which the research now states increase suicidal ideation in the under 25 age group. The current reponse to the evidence on "anti-depressants", FDA reviewer, "It doesn't mean that these drugs shouldn't be given to young adults but you have to think about the risks and the benefits. The findings tell you to watch people carefully. If someone on antidepressants talks of being suicidal, it may actually be due to the drugs." ... Professor John Geddes, an epidemiological psychiatrist at Oxford University, said it is important that patients taking antidepressants continued with their medication. 'Antidepressants increase suicidal thoughts in under-25s' - Health News - Health & Families - The Independent

Finally is the effect on burn patients. Along with the decrease in infections there seems to be a noticable decrease in pain, leading to less need for pain medication reported for people recovering in negative ion rooms. Apparently a large trauma center makes use of this. Nonetheless, there has been only one study I found directly on the subject and no randomized controlled trials, that seems a shame to me.

Perhaps the most interesting study I saw was a test tube study which reported that negative ions increased the activity of the superoxide dismustase enzyme system. This is notable for a couple reasons. First if negative ions are having an effect on one enzyme system they may also effect other systems. Second, the SOD system is the firstline defense against free-radicals especially the prevalent (and by product of mitochondrial resperation) superoxide anion. So negative ions increased, in one test tube study, the activity of the primary anti-oxidant enzyme system. Are negative ion generators primarily generating the superoxide anion? If so on the surface that would look very, very bad as superoxide is a potent free radical. That is why I asked what exactly does the ion generator create in the air. The clinical research however, has not shown such toxicity and quite honestly I don't know what the negative ion generators make in the air. In any event if this research concerning the SOD enzyme system were to hold up, and be further investigated, it might have a wide range of possible applications in a number of diseases.

Also, a number of people currently feel that altering the body pH to a more alkaline state is desirable for health. This topic is too broad to go into, however, I would just ask, isn't increasing the number of negative ions in the air, analagous to, or in actuality, increasing the pH of the air? Lastly to give just an entirely speculative research question, both silver and copper have been well documented as having anti-microbial effects. I wonder, is there any way to ionize silver or copper into the air?

While this an interesting area for research and academic discussion, the state of evidence is currently sparse. As a physician I do not recommend that anyone use any type of negative ion generator to attempt to treat or alter any disease or condition. Below are a few more references from the literature for further research. The links are to the abstracts but about half the links have the full text of the study available by clicking a box in the upper right hand corner. You gave me a lot to learn about and think about, Thanks!

Paul



Upper-room ultraviolet light and negative air ionization to prevent tuberculosis transmission. PLoS Med. 2009 Upper-room ultraviolet light and negative air ioniz... [PLoS Med. 2009] - PubMed - NCBI

Bactericidal action of positive and negative ions in air. BMC Microbiol. 2007 Bactericidal action of positive and negative i... [BMC Microbiol. 2007] - PubMed - NCBI

[Effects of ionization of the air on some bacterial strains]. Ann Ig. 1989 [Effects of ionization of the air on some bac... [Ann Ig. 1989 Nov-Dec] - PubMed - NCBI

Hospital-acquired legionnaires disease in a university hospital: impact of the copper-silver ionization system. Clin Infect Dis. 2007 Hospital-acquired legionnaires disease in a ... [Clin Infect Dis. 2007] - PubMed - NCBI

Effect of negative air ionization on airborne transmission of Newcastle disease virus. Avian Dis. 1994

Studies on the effects of ionization on bacterial aerosols in a burns and plastic surgery unit. J Hyg (Lond). 1979 Studies on the effects of ionization on bacteri... [J Hyg (Lond). 1979] - PubMed - NCBI

The effect of air ionization on the air-borne transmission of experimental Newcastle disease virus infections in chickens. J Hyg (Lond). 1979 The effect of air ionization on the air-borne t... [J Hyg (Lond). 1979] - PubMed - NCBI

The effect of negative air ion exposure on Escherichia coli and Pseudomonas fluorescens. The effect of negative air ion exposure on Escherichia coli and Pseudomonas fluorescens. The effe... [J Environ Sci Health A Tox Hazard Subst Environ Eng. 2008] - PubMed - NCBI

The stimulatory effect of negative air ions and hydrogen peroxide on the activity of superoxide dismutase. FEBS Lett. 1997 The stimulatory effect of negative air ions and hy... [FEBS Lett. 1997] - PubMed - NCBI

Treatment of seasonal affective disorder with a high-output negative ionizer. J Altern Complement Med. 1995 J Altern Complement Med. 1995

[thebanano]

Hello blackchisel97, nice project, wandering to know the diameter of each hollow pipe of your NIG...
There's something that i want to consider about the negative ion generator from a flyback converter (FBT), that made me confuse about the ion created from a FBT. As my two previous post, there's some post on the net tells that FBT doesn't create a negative output, only a neutral and positive output. maybe that makes CRT tv and monitor play a big role for ion ratio being unstable around our environment. That's why i was search on the net how to get a negative output from a FBT, but come to a dead end, cause i have to understand what is positive and negative output anyway, which mean that would make me headache

So i came to a conclusion (of mine indeed), that my fbt only act as ozone generator, and for an ion generator i prefer use multiplier voltage via capacitor and diode, ZDPM should have one,

By The Way Blackchisel97, this is the tesla patent that i would like you to understanding that meaning, if i wouldn't ask too much :
Patent No.613,735 - Electric Circuit Controller
This device exist at tesla ozone generator, and other patent. that make me curious to replicated that...

kind regards

[thebanano]

Hello blackchisel97, nice project, wandering to know the diameter of each hollow pipe of your NIG...mine was only 3/4" from a copper tube.
But, there's something that i want to consider about the negative ion generator from a flyback converter (FBT), that made me confuse about the ion created from a FBT. As my two previous post, there's some post on the net tells that FBT doesn't create a negative output, only a neutral and positive output. maybe that makes CRT tv and monitor play a big role for ion ratio being unstable around our environment. That's why i was search on the net how to get a negative output from a FBT, but come to a dead end, cause i have to understand what is positive and negative output anyway, which mean that would make me headache

So i came to a conclusion (of mine indeed), that my fbt only act as ozone generator, and for an ion generator i prefer use multiplier voltage via capacitor and diode, ZDPM should have one,

By The Way Blackchisel97, this is the tesla patent that i would like you to understanding that meaning, if i wouldn't ask too much :
Patent No.613,735 - Electric Circuit Controller
This device exist at tesla ozone generator, and other patent. that make me curious to replicated that...

kind regards

[blackchisel97]

Thank you Paul, it is good to read you. The idea behind my work with negative ions is to find out if and how they may affect the surrounding environment. I'm sensitive to weather disturbances and can detect storm coming for hours ahead. Since I only have basic electronic equipment my ways to test are limited. I'll take time later to read the links you have provided. I appreciate your input.

Thebanano. This was my concern also with using flyback so I decided to reverse the electrodes. Potential will always search for sharp or pointy object - in this case hv coming off the transformer is connected to the copper tubes ( ID 0.75" each) and negative is connected to the points. That was my logic. I'll think about a bit more. Of course, voltage multiplier would be plain and simple. Switching diodes around will provide either pos. or neg. output.
I will look into Tesla patent.

Update: What just occurred to me is that modern flashback transformers have built in rectifier. The old ones don't

Thanks
Vtech

[thebanano]

blackchisel97, here is an interesting patent about negative ion generator and a link of a you tube video that someone who had experience making an ion genarator from capacitor and diode, there is interesting quote from him about capacitor size and the effect if we use bigger capacitance of capacitor.
High-powered negative ion generator in a gaseous medium with a high-strength electric field configuration - Breton, Jacques L. G.

prototype9000 - YouTube

kind regards

[blackchisel97]

Thank you Thebanano, I'll check this out.

Vtech

I couldn't locate his particular video about ion generator but Breton patent is very interesting. Thank you for link.

[vrvs]

Indoor air quality

I would like to start this thread to share some of my findings and hope to inspire others to experiment. There is a vast amount of info in our great free library - internet therefore I'll keep the intro to the minimum and let you do more research into that matter.
The ions are basically atomic particles carrying charge, either positive or negative. This applies to the air surrounding us and while being most vital element ( we cannot survive without beyond a few minutes) it is also one of the most polluted one. Clean air (78% Nitrogen, 21% Oxygen plus trace amount of noble gasses) consists positive and negative ions in about 5:4 ratio. It has been found that any change in that ratio will affect all forms of biological systems - including humans, of course.
There is am excellent book written in '70 by Fred Soyka - The Ion Effect. I look at eBay last night and found couple copies reasonably priced.
If you research this topic you'll find that over 85%-90% of scientific reports state benefits of negative ions, remaining 14% - 9% reports claim no effect and less than 1% detail some detrimental effects. For me it was convincing enough to search for more information.
Despite overwhelming reports supporting negatively charged air and ozonated water benefits to our health, most manufacturers of such devices refrain from making such bold claims. Wonder why
Target of my project is to make replicable device capable of cleaning air by using negative ions and small amounts of ozone. Also, capable of making ozonated water, oil etc.
There is always more than one way to skin the cat and this case is no different. What we need is a source of reliable and tunable high voltage supply, launcher - in the form of electrodes or arrays and for second part - ozonated water we'll need a source of compressed air, such as fish tank pump and maybe even stone diffuser.
One way of generating HV would be by the use of voltage multiplier, such as - [ATTACH=CONFIG]1172[/ATTACH]
Second, which I decide to do is based on flyback TV transformer. They usually resonate in 20kHz range. Mine does at 28kHz and pulls 0.36A from 12V DC source. I'm not looking for spectacular purple discharge but just glowing tips of the electrodes for the creation of ionic wind rather than massive amounts of ozone.
Right now I've been running my driver circuit for the past few hours and it runs cool without heatsink on FET's. However, it is possible to run with more power and produce 2+ inch purple arc but this will cost about 4A and require transistors to be mounted on heatsink. I'm using small pancake coil connected to the scope probe to "sniff" the sine wave from a distance.
This is the circuit of flyback driver designed by Vladimiro Mazzilli-
[ATTACH=CONFIG]1173[/ATTACH]
and patent of Nikola Tesla - [ATTACH=CONFIG]1174[/ATTACH]

I'll provide more info and technical detail as I progress and of course if there is an interest in this subject.

Thanks
Vtech

The health effects of poor indoor air quality include, throat, nose, and eye irritations, respiratory infections, sinus problems, headaches, asthma, allergies. Through the use of Nano ionic technology, far-infrared rays and a special manufacturing process, a natural (non manufactured) paint additive has been developed that improves indoor air quality and permanently removes odors caused by smoking, pets and bacterial proliferation. AirReNu is a safe, effective and permanent solution. AirReNu works continuously, 7/24/365 eliminating odors and maintaining clean, healthy indoor air.

[blackchisel97]

Hello. I've been testing my ZVS based NIG for the past few days. It produces only gentle breeze but it seems to refresh the air quite a bit. My wife also confirmed that it is easier to breathe around the device. She had some respiratory problems and cough - possibly related to allergic reaction since last June. It looks like she is improving since I got this running. We're heating with air forced wood and there is more dust settling around but I've rather dust off more often than let my lungs filter those airborne particles. I'll get the other version done - based on voltage multiplier later. Been busy putting LED pulser on pcb (works fine) and collecting parts for the device to make ionized and ozonated water. Will update when done.

Thanks
V

[blackchisel97]

Some reading about the Ozone -

http://www.sachben.com/webplus/viewe...p?aid=113&l=EN

Lateral Science: Martinus Van Marum (1750-1837) "discovers" a light blue gas, with the help of Mr. Cuthbertson

Ozone Therapy: The Science Behind the Scandal

Ozone in Medicine: Overview and Future Directions

Ozone in Clinical Care, Chapter 1

Almost forgot, the most important one - http://www.ozonetherapy.co.uk/articl...references.htm

Vtech

[ZPDM]

Vtech,

First off this is great! Secondly, Hhrrmph, I thought I might have heard about some such! From my background I have always viewed ozone as a toxic pollutant. I have never heard of ozone's possible health giving effects. Just to be pendantic for a moment, in medicine we evaluate things through test tube studies, animal studies and human studies. The various human studies being most powerful when they are double blinded and randomized. To be cynical, sometimes, when test tube animal or other studies show great efficacy in an indication that is very lucrative there is, oddly enough, no further pursuit, investigation or publication in such an indication. I say this not to dampen enthusiasm about ozone but to note like many other treatments where there is positive evidence, we don't have the studies where a decent number of people were given it for some disease/indication and we likely won't from any conventional source, especially if the treatment is useful in diseases which threaten established revenue streams. So if we don't know a biological mechanism for why ozone might be useful and we don't have sufficient clincal data there is always the first do no harm caution mentality. Then again I'm probably just embarrassed to learn that ozone has medicinal applications.

I look forward to looking into the medical literature on this and posting back after I have fully read your links and seen what is in the peer reviewed literature. BTW I am sending you a PM message after this related to seeing if you can help me with a ZVS circuit.

[blackchisel97]

Good to read you Paul. Yes, I'm cautious about the ozone as well. However, it is my understanding that while inhaling ozone in higher concentrations poses significant risk to the lung tissue there are other possible applications which may be beneficial. I stay open minded and I'll keep searching for more data. This is a very potent compound and I have reasons to believe that its use has been limited to certain degree, not necessary out of concern about our well being. This is just my sole opinion.
Meanwhile, after doing more study about ionic effect I came to the conclusion that keeping potential between electrodes in low range - 3.5 to 5kV will limit ozone and nitrous compounds output down to negligible levels. This is regarding to negative ionization. Also, quality of materials used should not be compromised. Stainless steel, borosilicate glass (pyrex) are the way to do it. Plastics, rubber insulation will degrade in time causing shorts and possibly, release unwanted compounds into the output air stream. This is very important in ozone experiments. I believe that poor choice of materials maybe the cause of malfunctioning and short life span of cheap ozonizers available on the market. Using them for disinfecting in unoccupied spaces is one thing but to diffuse in water or oils for therapeutic use is another. Again, this is just my opinion.

Paul, I sent you PM. I did experiment with ZVS applications including induction heater and it works quite well. There is no problem reaching currie point in small steel objects utilizing relatively small amount of power. I was hoping to get short YT

Thanks
Vtech

[blackchisel97]

Hello guys.
I've been working today on Negative Ion Generator variation - using Cockroft-Walton multiplier, instead of flyback transformer.
There are circuits and patents available but most of them are feeding multiplier from mains, either directly - via resistor or using isolating transformer. I'm not a big enthusiast of such and got an idea of making simple inverter instead but then I started to think;
what if I increase feeding frequency? Even if my wave is not sine it should still work. I did remember simple oscillator which guys from Energetic Forum were working on. The idea was to power 6 or 9W 110V Cree LED light from low DC source. I did some experiments with this circuit using large ferrite toroid and different transformers. It worked quite well.
I decided to try it with voltage multiplier and it works just fine. I tested few different transformers and got variety of results, from 3,000V to 12,000V @ 100mA to 300mA. I'm feeding circuit from 12VDC wall adapter. Heatsink was necessary for certain transformers only. This one runs cold at approx. 100mA. On the left you can see two 5MOhm resistors in series and the last one serves as a needle. Copper loop works as other electrode. There is nice breeze coming from it and ozone smell is almost undetectable despite hissing sound. I'll let it run and will post details later.

Thanks
Vtech
and the circuit -

[totoalas]

Carmenbees Synchrotheraphy
this instrument had been used by a relative of mine who is a diabetic and a great improvement took place ..... the inventor used to work with the US Navy..... please take a look and see if you can incroporate this with your tech

totoalas

[blackchisel97]

" BEES supplies our body with negative ions, together with electromagnetic fields of sufficient magnitude and direction.."
Very interesting. Thanks for sharing totoalas.

Vtech